County of Los Angeles Vsap 2.1 Public Hearing Transcript

1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE OFFICE OF VOTING SYSTEMS TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT (OVSTA) PUBLIC HEARING ON REQUEST FOR APPROVAL OF VOTING TECHNOLOGY VSAP 2.1 VOTING SYSTEM REMOTE MONDAY, AUGUST 31, 2020 10:05 A.M. Reported by: PETER PERRY CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 2 APPEARANCES OFFICE OF VOTING SYSTEMS TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT STAFF: Susan Lapsley, Deputy Secretary of State NaKesha Robinson, Senior Election Technology Specialist Todd Ross, Election Technology Analyst PRESENTATIONS: NaKesha Robinson, Senior Election Technology Specialist Michael Santos, SLI Compliance PUBLIC COMMENTS: Trent Lange, California Clean Money Campaign Jed Pauker, LACVC Judy Branfman, Money Out Voters In Jennifer Tanner, Indivisible California Green Team Mandeep Gill, Indivisible East Bay Philip Stark Anastasia Kassar, California Clean Money Campaign Holly Mosher, Money Out Voters In Michele Sutter, Money Out Voters In Shirley Shelangoski Bill Hilton Michael Levinson Lulu Friesdat, Smart Elections Ann McKeown, Antelope Valley Progessive Democrats Nancy Neff, California Clean Money Campaign Chris Hayes, Protect Pascale Macleod Pamela Smith Janeen Pedersen Kim Alexander, California Voter Foundation Cynthia Maher Jim Davidson, California Clean Money Campaign Patricia Kraegel Emily Levy, Scrutineers Pat Schwinn Virginia Martin Garland Favorito Eloise Hamann Laurie Parizo CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 3 PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): Mimi Kennedy, Progressive Democrats of America Phyllis Klein Jenifer Cohn Robin Gibson Susan Greenhall, Free Speech for People Ann Harvey Lynne Huidekoper Adriene Coulter, Indivisible Ventura Roy Nirenberg Nancy Rader Dale Axelrod, Sonoma County Democratic Party Darlene Little, Protect California Ballots Stephanie Dennis David Newswanger Caryl Schwartz Ed Hieronymus Debra Cohn Rob Lanphier Katherine Carpio Larry Bathgate Karen Beck Michelle Gabriel Marcy Winograd Pamela Fuller CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 4 INDEX Page 1. Call to Order 5 2. Staff’s Report 7 3. Consultant’s Report 10 4. Public Comments 14 5. Closing Remarks by SLI Compliance 102 6. Closing Remarks by County of Los Angeles 104 Reporter’s Certificate 116 Transcriber’s Certificate 117 1 CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 AUGUST 31, 2020 10:05 A.M. 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: This is the 4 public hearing for Los Angeles County’s Voting Solution for 5 All People, VSAP 2.1. 6 Thank you, everyone, who is able to join us 7 virtually today for the public hearing. We appreciate your 8 patience and time being here and your willingness to partake 9 in this important part of the process. Today’s public 10 hearing will be conducted as follows, first, we will have the 11 Secretary of State’s staff report presentation by NaKesha 12 Robinson. Then following the staff report, we’ll have the 13 consultant’s report which will be presented by Michael Santos 14 with SLI. Following consultant’s report, we will take public 15 comments. After public comment, we will provide time for Los 16 Angeles County to make a statement or response if they so 17 choose. 18 Anyone who would like to speak during the public 19 comment period must use the chat box feature in WebEx. 20 Please provide your first name, last name, and organization, 21 if applicable. Speakers will be unmuted by the timekeeper in 22 the order listed in the chat box. If you do not see the chat 23 feature or are having technical difficulties, please email 24 votingsystems@sos.ca.gov so that someone can provide you with 25 assistance. Speaking time will be limited to three minutes. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 6 1 The timekeeper will advise when two minutes, 30 seconds has 2 elapsed and then will again when three minutes has elapsed. 3 So Todd Ross with OVSTA has agreed to be our timer today, so 4 he will unmute and advise you 30 seconds left and then time’s 5 up, and then we’ll move on to the next speaker. 6 All attendees are currently muted to ensure optimum 7 audio now. So we’re not doing video to maximize the audio 8 portion and the sound available with the system. A court 9 stenographer is taking a transcription of this public 10 hearing. This means the comments of everyone speaking here 11 today will become part of the public record, which will 12 eventually be posted on the Secretary of State’s website. 13 Written comments on these agenda items can be 14 submitted via email to votingsystems@sos.ca.govor by U.S. 15 mail to Secretary of State, attention Voting System Comment, 16 1500 11th Street, 6th floor, Sacramento, California, 95814 on 17 or before September 15th at 5:00 p.m. Any written comments 18 submitted to the Secretary of State will also become part of 19 the public record. As with all things COVID related, this is 20 new for all of us, so please have patience as we navigate 21 through this public hearing, and I would ask in particular of 22 patience with me as we -- as I navigate the chat box and the 23 timing and all the items that we have going on today. 24 So with that, we will go ahead. And I will turn it 25 over to NaKesha to start the staff report. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 7 1 MS. ROBINSON: Good morning, everyone, members of 2 the public and guests. 3 The County of Los Angeles submitted an application 4 for the VSAP 2.1 voting system on February 27th, 2020. The 5 system is comprised of the following major components, Tally 6 Version 2.2.2.31, which is the hardware and software that 7 captures and processes ballot images ensuring that votes on 8 paper ballots are digitally represented and counted storing 9 the images as cast vote records. 10 A ballot marking device, or BMD, Version 1.6, 11 essential component of the voting system and the main 12 interface for the voter. It includes a touchscreen, an audio 13 tactile interface, a paper handler, a QR code scanner, a dual 14 switch input, and an integrated ballot box. The BMD is used 15 by voters to generate, verify, and cast paper ballots. 16 FormatOS Version 1.6.1, which is the application 17 used to wipe new BMD devices. 18 BMD BASI Version 1.6, this is the application used 19 for the BMD. 20 BMD BESI Version 1.6, this is the application for 21 election software for the BMD. 22 BMD Manager, or BMG, Version 1.5, this is the 23 ballot marking device manager application for managing BMDs 24 including software, ballot configuration, and postelection 25 data. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 8 1 VSAP Ballot Layout, or VBL, Version 1.1.3 defines 2 ballot print format for BMD, vote-by-mail, remote-accessible 3 vote-by-mail, and Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee 4 Voting Act ballots. VBL also generates data files and 5 packages to configure the BMD, BMG, ISB, and Tally. 6 The Enterprise Signing Authority, or ESA, Version 7 1.0, a cryptographic subsystem hardware and software that 8 ensures components of the ESA conform to security standards, 9 and that the data path to components is secure and 10 authenticated. 11 And lastly, the IBML-ImageTrac 6400, a high speed 12 scanner used in conjunction with the Tally tabulation 13 software. 14 In addition to each of these aforementioned 15 components, which includes the executable code and the source 16 code, the County of Los Angeles was required to submit the 17 following, the technical data package, or TDP, all the 18 hardware and software components including all peripheral 19 devices needed for all phases of testing, and the VSAP 2.1 20 use procedures. 21 The staff report presents the test results for all 22 phases of the certification test of the VSAP 2.1 voting 23 system. The purpose of the testing is to test the compliance 24 of the voting system with California and federal laws 25 including the California Voting System Standards, or CVSS. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 9 1 Testing also undercovers other findings which do not 2 constitute noncompliance, and those findings are reported to 3 the County of Los Angeles to address the issues procedurally. 4 The procedures mitigate any additional findings are made to 5 the documentation specifically the County of Los Angeles VSAP 6 2.1 use procedures. 7 Through the formal California contracting process 8 and pursuant to California Elections Code Section 19285, the 9 Secretary of State awarded a contract to SLI Compliance, a 10 division of Gaming Laboratories International, LLC, to serve 11 in the capacity as the state-approved testing agency or 12 expert technician to examine the system. Hardware testing of 13 the ballot marking device was subcontracted by SLI to 14 National Technical Systems, or NTS, Laboratory. 15 The Secretary of State’s staff in conjunction with 16 SLI oversaw all phases of testing of the system including 17 functional, software testing or the source code review, 18 security and telecommunications or (indiscernible) 19 penetration testing, volume, and accessibility, usability, 20 and privacy testing in addition to hardware testing. 21 During the functional test, four test elections 22 were tested including ballot generation, marking and 23 tabulation, and finally reporting and verification of 24 results. 25 The source code review and security and CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 10 1 telecommunications testing where tasked to SLI to evaluate 2 the security and integrity of the voting system by 3 identifying any security vulnerabilities that could be 4 exploited to alter vote recording, alter vote results, alter 5 critical data such as audit logs, or conduct a denial of 6 (indiscernible) attack on the voting system. 7 Additionally, SLI was also tasked to evaluate the 8 system for the previous findings of the VSAP 2.0 source code 9 and security testing. Testing concluded with a volume test 10 of the BMD devices simulating the volume the devices could 11 experience on election day and accessibility testing with 12 volunteers from the County of Los Angeles Acceptability 13 Community. Each of the reports and the results can be found 14 on our website. 15 I will now turn it over to Mike Santos from SLI for 16 the presentation of the consultant’s reports. 17 MR. SANTOS: Thank you, NaKesha. 18 Can you hear me? 19 MS. ROBINSON: Yes, we can hear you. 20 MR. SANTOS: Okay. Good morning. This is Michael 21 Santos from SLI Compliance. 22 As NaKesha just mentioned, SLI Compliance examined 23 the system in the following areas, functional, source code, 24 security and telecommunications, volume, hardware, and 25 accessibility, usability, and privacy. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 11 1 With regards to the functional examination, the 2 functional testing reviewed and verified functionality in 3 place for all components of the VSAP Tally 2.1 system. The 4 assessment included an analysis of the voting system’s 5 functionality-related documented policies and procedures. 6 The components of the VSAP Tally 2.1 system were found to be 7 compliant with CVSS standards. 8 With regards to source code examination, a source 9 code review analysis was conducted by SLI where all 10 components declared in the VSAP Tally 2.1 system. The review 11 was conducted utilizing both the automated tools and the 12 manual review. The review looked at coding standards 13 utilized during the development process as well as the CVSS 14 requirements within the standard. The source code review 15 determined that the VSAP Tally 2.1 system’s compliant to the 16 CVSS standards with the exception of a handful of minor 17 issues in structured programming, error checking, and unused 18 executable code aspects. And there were only about five or 19 six issues found. 20 With regard to the security telecommunication 21 examination, that testing focused on the physical and logical 22 security measures in place where all devices within the VSAP 23 Tally 2.1 system. The assessment included an analysis of the 24 voting system’s current security measures and documented 25 policies and procedures. The components of the VSAP Tally CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 12 1 2.1 system were found to be compliant to the CVSS standards 2 with the exceptions of the functional security review found 3 some issues concerning (indiscernible) encryption not being 4 fully implemented, as well as access control authorization 5 procedures not consistently implemented. 6 There were a number of potential vulnerabilities 7 found during vulnerability scans of the entire VSAP solution 8 environment. With the physical and air gap mitigations, the 9 chance of these vulnerabilities being exploited is considered 10 to be low to medium. 11 With regards to the volume examination, the volume 12 testing review did verify the ability for the system to be 13 able to successfully manage large volumes of ballots and vote 14 data within the Tally 2.1 system. The components of the VSAP 15 Tally 2.1 system were found to be compliant to the CVSS 16 standards. Worth note that some issues were encountered 17 during the volume testing which included timid feeds, where a 18 voter hesitantly reads the ballot and sometimes results in 19 the ballot being rejected in which case they just simply 20 resubmit it. QR codes errors where the QR code was not 21 successfully read, and then the rereads seemed to mitigate 22 that issue. In one incident of a blank screen after the 23 ballot had been inserted, all issues were mitigated through 24 the testing. 25 With regards to the functional examination –- oh, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 13 1 I’m sorry, with regards to the hardware examination, the 2 hardware testing reviewed and verified the functionality and 3 place for the BMD components of the VSAP Tally 2.1 system 4 with regards to hardware testing. The hardware components of 5 the VSAP system were found to be compliant to the CVSS 6 standards. 7 And the last area of examination was accessibility, 8 usability, and privacy. This testing reviewed and verified 9 the ability for all users of the system to be able to 10 successfully utilize in the components of the VSAP Tally 2.1 11 system. The components of the system were found to be 12 compliant to the CVSS standards. 13 This concludes SLI’s examination of the VSAP Tally 14 2.1 system. Any additional information regarding the 15 aforementioned testing can be found on the publicly available 16 test reports published by the California Secretary of State’s 17 office. Thank you. 18 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 19 you, Mike. 20 So again, anyone who would like to speak during the 21 public comment, please use the chat box feature in WebEx and 22 provide your first name, last name, and organization, if 23 applicable. The speakers will be unmuted by the host in the 24 order listed in the chat box. I’ve been keeping a list as 25 we’ve been going along. And again, if you don’t see the chat CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 14 1 feature or if you’re having technical difficulties, please 2 email votingsystems@sos.ca.gov so that someone can provide 3 you with assistance. 4 So far, I have four public speakers. I have, just 5 so everyone can be ready in the order, first I have Trent 6 Lange. And then second is Jed Baker -- Pauker, sorry. And 7 third is Judy Branfman. And fourth is Jennifer Tanner. 8 So again, if you can give NaKesha just a second to 9 unmute you, Trent, you’ll be up first. Trent is with the 10 California Clean Money Campaign. And again, you’ll have 11 three minutes, Mr. Lange. 12 MR. LANGE: Organization that –- can you hear me? 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, I can now. 14 MR. LANGE: Okay, great. The California Clean 15 Money Campaign is a 20-year-old organization that cares 16 deeply about fair elections and election security with over 17 100,000 supporters in California. 18 We greatly appreciate the huge amount of care and 19 thought that’s been put into VSAP’s ballot marking devices to 20 make them powerful and usable, especially for people with 21 disabilities. We do believe that if the county were to share 22 it with the rest of the country as open source, which is 23 actually one of our requests, that it could provide a 24 tremendous transparency and security benefit for elections 25 over existing systems. However, on March 3rd, we sent a CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 15 1 coalition letter to Secretary Padilla signed by 42 state, 2 local, and national organizations and election experts 3 identifying three major security and access issues with VSAP 4 urging him not to give final certification, to make it only 5 conditional until they are satisfactorily addressed. You’ll 6 hear from some of them today and from some activists who also 7 care about that, I believe. 8 The QR code issue is one of the big ones. Election 9 security experts like Dr. Philip Stark and others are very 10 concerned that people cannot verify the QR codes. They can 11 read the English, but they cannot read and verify that their 12 votes are accurately represented in the barcode. Colorado 13 Secretary of State last fall disallowed the use of QR codes 14 and other printed barcodes in their paper ballots, saying 15 that it was necessary to increase the security of vote 16 tabulation and ensure voters can accurately verify that their 17 ballots are correctly marked. QR codes could be among the 18 next target of an attack and are potentially subject to 19 manipulation. So if Colorado Secretary of State can ban QR 20 codes, we would ask that California’s does. 21 We know this is possible now because the InterCivic 22 Verity Voting System and the Smartmatic BMDA 4600 all use 23 optical character recognition. So we know it can’t be done 24 by November, but we’re asking that you not give final 25 certification until it’s done before the next election. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 16 1 We’re also very concerned, the coalition is very 2 concerned about the use of the ballot marking devices as 3 ballot boxes, so we’re asking that use separate ordinary 4 ballot boxes options –- 5 MR. ROSS: Two minutes and 30 seconds. 6 MR. LANGE: Okay. For all separate ballot boxes as 7 done in every other county. We’re also asking that you 8 provide the option for people to have real paper ballots when 9 they come into the voting center, not the write-in ballots 10 which take way too long for people to fill in. Every other 11 county provides that either with preprinted ballots or with 12 ballot-on-demand printers. So, again, we ask that the 13 Secretary –- 14 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 15 MR. LANGE: -- other changes. Thank you. 16 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 17 Mr. Lange, and thank you for being the first guinea pig as we 18 do the public speaking firstly. So glad you could make it, 19 and thanks for your testimony information. 20 Again for those that wish to speak, please either 21 message me, this is Susan Lapsley, directly so I can make 22 sure you are on the list or in the chat box or send it -- a 23 chat with everyone and put your information in there. Either 24 way, it doesn’t -- or either way, it doesn’t matter. I am 25 keeping a list of speakers. I know that some have messaged CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 17 1 NaKesha directly and NaKesha is providing those to me as 2 well. But make sure, I want to make sure we get everyone who 3 wants to speak the ability to speak and make sure we have you 4 on the list. 5 So, again, thanks Mr. Lange. Appreciate you being 6 the first out of the gate. 7 Next up is Jed Pauker with Los Angeles County 8 Voters Action Coalition, and am I pronouncing that correctly? 9 MS. ROBINSON: Sorry, Susan, what was that name 10 again? 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Jed –- I think 12 it’s Pauker, P-A-U-K-E-R. 13 MR. PAUKER: Ah, great, got it. Thank you. You 14 can hear me now, I hope? 15 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes. 16 MR. PAUKER: Great. Yeah, it’s pronounced like 17 Pauker. 18 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Sorry. Sorry, 19 Mr. Pauker. 20 MR. PAUKER: No, not at -- not at all. It’s a 21 German name that they gave the Hungarians when they conquered 22 Hungary in the mid-1800s. 23 I want to thank everybody for this opportunity, and 24 I like seeing everyone’s name on this call today, which 25 marks, by the way, what would have been the 101st birthday of CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 18 1 my mother, the oldest child of immigrants from Russia. My 2 father’s father sent his young family to America and then 3 followed himself five years later leaving by the backdoor as 4 the Nazis knocked on the front. 5 The values that my parents shared with us, their 6 children, underlie the concerns I voice today on behalf of 7 immigrants, indigenous and native Americans alike. My 8 service as a technology in the Los Angeles County Voters 9 Action Coalition, also known as LACVAC, drives several grave 10 concerns regarding certification of the VSAP system, which is 11 currently poisoned by visible and invisible basic design 12 flaws. 13 I speak today on the simplest of them, the 14 resolution of which will transform an inequitable onsite 15 voting process into a trustworthy result. The ballot marking 16 device’s onboard ballot box is as unnecessary as a human 17 appendix. The ballot’s second pass under the machine’s 18 head -- on the machine’s printheads is a proven disease 19 vector and must be prohibited in order for our Secretary of 20 State to provide conditional certification under California 21 Voting System Standards, standards which by the way may 22 govern his trustworthiness in future elections. 23 Since we cannot repair this flaw before our general 24 election period begins, training the Los Angeles County vote 25 center workers must include the instruction for voters to CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 19 1 print their ballots on the machines, carefully review them, 2 and then carry them to the onsite standalone ballot box, full 3 stop. 4 Experts agree that QR codes must be prohibited in 5 order -- in favor of QR of OCR to provide voter verifiable 6 vote counts. And public ownership requires that VSAP source 7 code be released for peer review as per California State Bill 8 360. Fulfilling these and other conditions as discussed in 9 the Clean Money, LACVAC, and other coalition letter sent to 10 county and state offices promise to produce a voting system 11 whose model can someday provide value to –- 12 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 13 MR. PAUKER: Thank you for your consideration. I 14 appreciate it. It’s all yours. 15 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 16 much. Appreciate the testimony. 17 And again, I’d like to remind everyone that if you 18 did not get to cover all of your points in your public 19 comment presentation, please feel free to submit additional 20 public comments or the remainder of your written comments to 21 votingsystems@sos.ca.gov. And again, we’re taking those 22 through September 15th, 2020. 23 Next up, we have Judy Branfman. Judy is on the 24 phone. 25 NaKesha, are you able to unmute her? CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 20 1 MS. BRANFMAN: Thank you very much. Good morning. 2 This is Judy Branfman, I’m a member of Money Out Voters In, I 3 live in Santa Monica. 4 And I wanted to quickly speak to three issues. One 5 is just to reiterate that the QR code must be eliminated as 6 it details in the Election Expert Coalition letter. The 7 second has to do with equity and voting in L.A. County, and 8 what happened in March. Roughly 3,000 of the prior 4,000 9 polling places were eliminated, which in some cases I know 10 prior several precincts were in the same location often, but 11 still, I would say at least over a thousand poll places were 12 closed. And there were no warnings or signs on closed 13 centers. And it meant that a well-off community of people 14 could drive around looking for a site to vote in, but this 15 isn’t the case in many, many parts of L.A. County. And I 16 know from observation in March, this was a problem. 17 Also, as far as the 24-hour voting locations, there 18 were absolutely none in all of south L.A. stretching all the 19 way to the harbor, and the harbor at least has a huge number 20 of people who could have benefited, working people who could 21 have benefited by a 24-hour voting place. But to have it is 22 such a —- to have nothing in this huge (indiscernible) of 23 L.A. County just seems discriminatory. The one voting center 24 in east L.A. 24-hour voting center would close very quickly, 25 people were only offered the paper ballots where you have to CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 21 1 fill in everything yourself, write everything in, which most 2 people did not do. So there were a lot of problems. 3 And finally, the VSAP system was touted as an open 4 source system. I know it’s been pointed out that it really 5 isn’t, but the public records request that I made, it was 6 clear that the KnowInk poll book is proprietary and that the 7 County had to sign a nondisclosure agreement to get it turned 8 over to the county. And we’re talking about the poll book 9 used for voters across the county. So this was really 10 problematic. 11 I hope Secretary Padilla will take these and all 12 the issues people are raising today seriously and make sure 13 everyone can vote and be counted. Thank you. 14 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 15 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yeah, great. 16 Thank you, Judy. Appreciate it and appreciate your comments. 17 Next up is Jennifer Tanner. And Jennifer, before 18 you start, just to give others a heads up. I have been 19 keeping a list here. After Jennifer, we will have 20 Dr. Mandeep Gill, and Michele Sutter is next after Dr. Gill. 21 And then Philip Stark will be on deck after that. 22 And then I have a list of several more. So thank 23 you again for putting your names in the chat box. I’m 24 getting them and making a list. 25 So NaKesha, are you able to unmute Jennifer Tanner? CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 22 1 And Jennifer is with the Indivisible California Green Tea, am 2 I getting that right? 3 MS. TANNER: Team. Can you hear me? 4 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Team. There we 5 go, thank you. 6 MS. TANNER: Hi. First of all, thank you so much 7 for the public hearing and thank you, Susan, for all of your 8 help. We all need it. I was having trouble navigating, so 9 thank you. 10 My name is Jennifer Tanner, founder of Indivisible 11 California Green Team, and one of our priorities is election 12 security. Indivisible California State Strong comprises all 13 of the 70 indivisible groups representing over 40,000 people 14 all over California, and all of the groups have signed a 15 Clean Money Coalition letter that we sent you in March and an 16 updated one that you will receive soon. With a huge 17 coalition demanding that you refrain from giving final 18 certification for the VSAP until you have resolved the 19 outstanding security flaws detailed in the March letter. 20 Number 1, we are all concerned about the QR code, 21 which voters cannot verify their vote being used to tally 22 their vote. Colorado Secretary of State banned the use of QR 23 codes for counting ballots and got their vendors to 24 accommodate that, so why are we still using them? 25 Number 2, we are all concerned that when voters CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 23 1 cast their ballots on the VSAP, the ballot goes under the 2 printhead a second time, which can be hacked to alter the 3 ballots. They need to use separate ballot boxes like every 4 other county in California. 5 Number 3, voters need to be offered real hand- 6 marked paper ballots like every other county in California. 7 The write-in absentee ballots are laborious and will not be 8 used. We need ballot-in-demand printers like all the other 9 counties in California have for people who prefer the gold 10 standard of security, hand-marked paper ballots. 11 And finally, we need the system to be open sourced 12 as was originally promised to not follow the privatized model 13 that vendors have been selling for elections in America 14 forever. The issue was so important to us that Indivisibles 15 in Los Angeles, after you conditionally approved the VSAP 16 despite our coalition letter asking you to not do that, we 17 formed LACVAC, Los Angeles County Voters Action Coalition, of 18 which I am one of the original founders. We are happy to say 19 we’ve been meeting with all of our L.A. supervisors’ offices 20 and also with Dean Logan, registrar recorder, very useful 21 meetings. 22 Every Indivisible member I speak to is upset and 23 concerned about the L.A. system. L.A. and California have 24 spent hundreds of millions of dollars. It would be 25 catastrophic for the Secretary of State to approve it when it CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 24 1 has these blatant unresolved security flaws that unfixed will 2 lessen voter confidence in voting. All of our Indivisibles 3 in Los Angeles and all of (indiscernible) –- 4 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 5 MS. TANNER: -- care deeply, and we are counting on 6 you, our Secretary of State, to not finalize such an insecure 7 system. Thank you. 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 9 much, Ms. Tanner, appreciate the public comments. 10 Next up we have Dr. Mandeep Gill with Indivisible 11 East Bay. 12 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Dr. Gill? 13 DR. GILL: Okay. Great. Can you guys hear me? 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes. 15 DR. GILL: Okay. Great. Hi there, everybody. So 16 this is Dr. Mandeep Gill with Indivisible East Bay. 17 I’m not in Los Angeles, but I’m in Alameda County, 18 California, where our county votes by hand-marked paper 19 ballots, the ones where you connect the lines. I’ve been in 20 involved, actually, in election security since going to Ohio 21 in 2004 after the very messed up election there where it went 22 all the way to Congress and they decertified parts of it. It 23 eventually went through, but we know the rest of the story. 24 So there were huge books written about that, and I 25 knew a lot about the details of the machines and all of that CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 25 1 then and watched a lot of voting recounts, but I’ve just 2 gotten reinvolved in the issue of ballot marking devices and 3 these issues here in California. So mostly I want to just 4 support what Trent, Jed, Judy, and Jennifer have already 5 said. They’re experts, they’ve been studying this. 6 And I want to just step back for a second and say 7 there’s a lot of details, a lot of reports on the page 8 NaKesha pointed us to and that she summarized, and the other 9 staff member. And -- but I just want to say that often bad 10 decisions on varying governmental levels are clothed in 11 technicalities and legalities that are just hard for ordinary 12 citizens to parse, meaning the phrases, the banality of evil, 13 you know, let’s not go to the evil level, but it’s just 14 there’s a lot of technicalities. And this is especially true 15 when for-profit corporations are involved in hundreds of 16 millions of dollars, as Jennifer said. 17 So Canada, a country with a population nearly the 18 size of California, uses hand-marked paper ballots and they 19 count them by hand. Many countries in Europe do. People 20 just need to have trust in the system to have faith in 21 democracy, which is clearly being shaken at the national 22 level. California should be the model. We just can’t 23 approve an election system in the biggest county in the state 24 that has all the security flaws that have been outlined 25 including Money Coalition letter and that have been talked CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 26 1 about already and affects all of us ultimately in the state. 2 It’s responsible for you to fix this system before it is 3 approved by you. So we’re expecting you to wait to approve 4 this. 5 Finally, I’ll just say we oughtn’t approve 6 something shiny and new just because there’s a big pot of 7 money available and it looks like a nice technological fix. 8 Sometimes, the fixes we need are simplest, like getting back 9 to transparent marking of paper ballots just that everybody 10 can see in front of their eyes and watch the recounts of. 11 Thanks so much. 12 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 13 you so much, Dr. Gill. 14 Next up, we have Michele Sutter with Money Out 15 Voters In. And again, just before you get started, I will 16 give the lineup of kind of next ones in line. We have 17 Michele Sutter, and then Philip Stark, and then Anastasia 18 Kassar. And then Holly Mosher, Mosher, I’m sorry if I’m 19 mispronouncing last names here. 20 But Michele, go ahead. 21 And NaKesha, can you unmute Michele Sutter, please? 22 Michele, are you able to speak? 23 NaKesha, can you -- are you able to unmute her? 24 MS. ROBINSON: Yes, she’s unmuted. If she’s 25 speaking, I’m not hearing her. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 27 1 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Oh, I see in 2 the chat that she has mic problems. You know, Michele, I’ll 3 come back to you. Maybe it might be, maybe see if it’s 4 possible to call in if that would, to the call number, and we 5 can send that to you. That might be able to -- the 6 opportunity for you to be able to use the mic and give your 7 comment. So we’ll come back to you. 8 So next up is Philip Stark. 9 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Mr. Stark? 10 MR. STARK: (Indiscernible). 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yeah. Good 12 morning, Mr. Stark. 13 MR. STARK: Good morning. Thank you for the 14 opportunity to comment. I’m commenting as an individual, not 15 as a representative of any group. 16 I wanted to make four quick points. First is the 17 necessity of providing voters with the option to hand-mark a 18 paper ballot in polling places. A genuine preprinted 19 Australian-style ballot, not a write-in ballot. The reliance 20 on ballot marking devices for all in-person voters are making 21 that the primary motive casting a vote really does undermine 22 the security of the paper trail. In essence, it makes the 23 paper trail hackable. 24 The second thing that I hope will be addressed is 25 disabling the ballot boxes that are attached to the ballot- CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 28 1 marking devices. As has been mentioned before in this call, 2 allowing the ballot to pass under the printhead after the 3 voter has last seen the printout means that a malicious hack 4 could render a ballot unreadable, add selections, and other 5 things that undermine the security of the paper trail. 6 Again, the net result is that the paper trail becomes 7 hackable. 8 The third thing, I hope that the cybersecurity 9 issues will be addressed before final certification, 10 including issues around route access and hardcoded passwords 11 in particular. 12 And finally, my understanding is that the process 13 that led to this system under SB360 envisioned that all of 14 California could benefit from the development, including the 15 software that’s being built. And my understanding is that 16 currently the software has not been disclosed, much less 17 licensed under an open license. I’ve heard from Clerk 18 Registrar Logan that there are concerns about governance of 19 the software code base. I don’t understand how that can be a 20 concern for disclosing the source. That’s primarily a 21 concern for allowing people to modify the source as it is 22 being run for L.A. County, and that’s not the issue here. 23 It’s more licensing and visibility and transparency. Thank 24 you very much. 25 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 29 1 Philip, appreciate the comments. 2 Next up is Anastasia Kassar. Kassar. Again, I 3 apologize if I am mispronouncing last names. And she is with 4 the California Clean Money Campaign. 5 NaKesha, are you able to unmute her? 6 MS. KASSAR: Hi, my name is Anastasia Kassar, and I 7 am from the California Clean Money Campaign. 8 I’d like to thank you for holding this hearing and 9 allowing me to speak today. As a millennial, young voter, 10 and activist, I strongly urge Secretary Padilla to consider 11 the system’s critical security flaws outlined by the Clean 12 Money Coalition letter before giving it final approval. 13 Recently, our elections have been under threat, and 14 young people are increasingly worried about the security of 15 our elections. They’re counting on L.A. County to ensure 16 their votes are counted. That’s why it’s so important that 17 you consider the Clean Money Coalition’s letter to fix the 18 security flaws and give young people the opportunity to have 19 their voices heard this election in a safe and secure way. 20 Thank you. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. And 22 thanks for your testimony today and your comments. 23 Next up is Holly Mosher or Mosher with Money Out 24 Voters In and Smart Elections. 25 NaKesha, please unmute Holly. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 30 1 MS. MOSHER: Hi, can you hear me? 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, thank 3 you. 4 MS. MOSHER: Okay. Thank you so much for having 5 this hearing. Again, my name is Holly Mosher and I’m with 6 Money Out Voters In and Smart Elections. 7 And we all wrote letters asking the Secretary of 8 State not to certify this until all the security issues were 9 addressed, and we are concerned that not enough has changed. 10 We saw an epic fail with voting in the primary, and I know 11 this is looking at VSAP 2.1, but we need to look at the whole 12 system. To just piecemeal this, I think, is not fair. 13 I wonder why they failed to listen to the tech 14 advisory team who asked to have CD-ROM of all the voters at 15 each voting center. They also need to be able to print a 16 hand-markable ballot on demand or have the ballots. They 17 said they could have, you know, the ballots that would be 18 most used at each location so that each voter could get their 19 correct ballot and hand-mark it. 20 I wonder about the deep cut in thousands of polling 21 locations, you know. This would be front page news anywhere 22 else, and this created so many people who walked away from 23 the polls. I was videoing that day. I can’t tell you how 24 many people left because of the lines. And I talked to 25 people days later who, I went to vote, but I couldn’t, so I CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 31 1 left, you know. It shouldn’t take this long. 2 Also, this open source. You know, both VSAP and 3 the e-poll books need to be open source if they, you know, 4 any system we are using on election day needs to be open 5 source if that’s what they’re touting. 6 And then there was the lawsuits over the more 7 button. The law is to be, you know, all candidates on one 8 page, but it was, you know, people had to scroll for more 9 pages, more pages, and I wonder if that was adequately fixed. 10 I’m concerned because we made a guinea pig with 11 five million voters in the largest voting district in the 12 entire country, a very diverse voting, you know, population. 13 Are we making this equitable? And with so many, you know, I 14 saw, you know, electricity go out, we saw, you know, people 15 just couldn’t vote. 16 Also, within the conditional approval from the 17 Secretary of State, Item Number 33 said within five months 18 from the date of this conditional approval, L.A. County shall 19 provide a plan to the Secretary of the State for reviewing 20 the functionality of the more button. You know, what is 21 that? Are we getting all on one page to actually follow the 22 laws of the state? 23 So I say please do not give this conditional –- 24 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 25 MS. MOSHER: And that’s it. Thank you. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 32 1 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 2 you so much for your public comment. 3 Let’s try this, Ms. Sutter, let’s try going back to 4 you and see if we can unmute you and let you provide your 5 public comment. Are you able to use your microphone? 6 MS. SUTTER: You tell me. Can you hear me? 7 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: I can. Thank 8 you very much. 9 MS. SUTTER: Oh, lovely. Love it when technical 10 difficulties are solved. 11 So I’m Michele Sutter. I’m the director of MOVI, 12 Money Out Voters In. We were the organization -- 13 organizational sponsor of the original Overturned Citizens 14 United Act SB1272 and then the second Overturned Citizens 15 United Act SB254, and I chaired the successful Yes On Prop 59 16 campaign. 17 As our name would suggest, getting money out of 18 politics is a primary concern, and Voters In is an enormous 19 part of our mission, and as Judy and Holly have spoken so 20 eloquently, too, this morning, there were a myriad of issues 21 with the new voting system. 22 I, though, want to focus my remarks on the open 23 source issue. You know, throughout the country, ballot 24 marking devices are being challenged and there is a push 25 within our community certainly to go to hand-marked paper CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 33 1 ballots overall. But particularly in the VSAP system, you 2 know, we were confident that these source codes would be 3 released as part of being in compliance with the 2013 SB360 4 which was then State Senator Padilla’s own bill. And so we 5 are perplexed as to why those codes have not been released so 6 that we might have confidence, yet these machines would not 7 be vulnerable to outside actors as Mr. Stark referred to. 8 I cannot understand why we would not want to test 9 whether or not these machines –- 10 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 11 MS. SUTTER: Thank you. Whether these machines can 12 be -- can be manipulated. We have a number of very close 13 potentially elections in this county, and the merest hack 14 could affect the outcomes. And I would urge that the 15 Secretary of State release these codes so that we could have 16 confidence that the way that we counted the votes –- 17 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 18 MS. SUTTER: Thank you. Is the way they will be 19 counted. Thank you all so very much. 20 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 21 much. I’m glad that we got the technical difficulties worked 22 out. 23 So next up, again, to give everyone a heads up, we 24 have Shirley Shelangoski, and again, my apologies. Bill 25 Hilton with California Clean Money. Michael Levinson, and CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 34 1 Lulu Friesdat is on deck. 2 So Shirley are you -- 3 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Shirley so that she 4 can give her public comment? 5 MS. SHELANGOSKI: Hello, can you hear me? Can you 6 hear me? 7 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, yes. 8 Thank you. 9 MS. SHELANGOSKI: Okay, hi. Yeah, this is Shirley 10 Shelangoski, I’ve been with California Clean Money for the 11 past seven years and also with Contra Costa County Money Out 12 People In. 13 I’ve also attended an election security workshop 14 last fall in Berkeley, so I’m very interested in this 15 subject. I understand the vulnerabilities of the regular 16 machines but in the particular the ones that are in L.A. 17 right now, and I am really asking that Secretary Padilla not 18 certify these machines for election until L.A. County is in 19 compliance with the security problems addressed. 20 And I’m very concerned that voters don’t have the 21 option to use regular paper ballots at the voting centers if 22 they didn’t bring their vote-by-mail ballot. So every other 23 county does this. And I would really appreciate that all the 24 security concerns be addressed before people are able to cast 25 their vote and feel confident that the vote that they cast is CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 35 1 the one that will be counted. Thank you. 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 3 you so much. 4 Next up is Mr. Hilton. 5 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Bill Hilton? 6 MS. ROBINSON: Sorry, give me one sec. First name 7 again? 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Bill Hilton. 9 MS. ROBINSON: Yeah. 10 MR. HILTON: And I live in Sunnyvale. Am I muted 11 still? 12 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: You are now 13 unmuted. 14 MR. HILTON: Okay. I’m a participant in the 15 California Clean Money Campaign and also with Indivisible 350 16 Silicon Valley and Courage California. 17 Almost everyone I talk to is concerned about the 18 security of our elections because we know that they have 19 recently been attacked. I’m especially concerned in the case 20 of VSAP 2.1 that it uses QR codes that I, as a voter, could 21 not easily verify. Colorado Secretary of State has banned 22 them, and I hope you will too. 23 Also, the Secretary should require L.A. County to 24 release VSAP source code as open source or at least as 25 disclosed source per Secretary Padilla’s own bill SB360 CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 36 1 passed some years ago. In fact, it troubles me that we’re 2 even having this hearing given that L.A. County hasn’t yet 3 produced everything that they’re required to produce. 4 So in my view, the whole state and possibly the 5 country is watching the example that the Secretary will set 6 for publicly owned ballot marking. Please fix all these 7 issues and others that have been mentioned by other speakers 8 so we can be proud of what is certified, not afraid of it. 9 I’m counting on Secretary Padilla to ensure voters 10 like you have confidence that everyone’s votes are being 11 counted accurately and that he doesn’t give final 12 certification until obvious security flaws are fixed. Thank 13 you very much. 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. Hilton. 16 Next up is Michael Levinson. 17 And NaKesha, I believe that Mr. Levinson is 18 actually caller number 6. Are you able to unmute him? 19 MR. LEVINSON: Yes, hi. Is everybody able to hear? 20 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We are, thank 21 you. 22 MR. LEVINSON: Yes. Michael Levinson. I live in 23 Daly City, which is the northern part of San Mateo County. I 24 am speaking as an individual, but I am on the San Mateo 25 County VAC, Voting Accessibility Committee, and we review a CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 37 1 lot of the voting systems in San Mateo County. 2 I have a sight disability, so there’s a number of 3 things that are mentioned in the Clean Money and expert 4 letter that affect people with sight disabilities. 5 Obviously, I would not be able to vote independently if I 6 could not get a ballot handed to me at the polling place, a 7 fresh ballot that I could fill out without assistance, and 8 using the machine there allows me to do that. 9 Second thing I want to mention is the disclosed 10 aspect. I think before this is approved, the code should be 11 disclosed so those people can test to see if it works the way 12 it’s supposed to. 13 I guess my next issue would probably be with the 14 printhead because I think the worst thing that could happen 15 given what’s going on right now with voting issues in this 16 country is to approve something and then have a scandal. It 17 would be worse than not approving it, which is what we’re I 18 believe advocating for for the most part today, is to 19 postpone this until all these issues can be resolved. 20 So that’s all I have to say for today. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 22 Mr. Levinson, appreciate the public comment. 23 Next up we have Lulu Friesdat. And after that, 24 just so everyone can get ready, Ann McKeown, sorry. Nancy 25 Neff, and Chris Hays will be on deck. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 38 1 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Lulu? 2 MS. FRIESDAT: Good morning, can you hear me? 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, thank 4 you. 5 MS. FRIESDAT: Good morning, thank you so much for 6 having this hearing and listening to our voices and really 7 taking them in. We hope that you will really take action on 8 what we’re saying. 9 My name is Lulu Friesdat, I am the executive 10 director of Smart Elections. It’s an organization dedicated 11 to elevating election reform to an urgent national priority. 12 I understand that what happens in California has 13 profound consequences for the rest of the country. And one 14 of the ways that we can think about this is think about areas 15 that California has been a leader. For example, in 16 Proposition 65, the mandate that California put out to 17 protect families with information about chemicals that cause 18 cancer and birth defects, that protects me even though I live 19 in Brooklyn because many of the national companies started to 20 follow Prop 65 with all of their labeling. 21 Unfortunately, in regard to voting systems, L.A. is 22 not a leader, and it’s really, really tragic. This was an 23 amazing opportunity that was squandered. Los Angeles is one 24 of the first major metropolitan areas to design its own 25 voting system from scratch, but instead of designing a system CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 39 1 that is verifiable, reliable, transparent, accessible, 2 secure, and builds confidence, L.A. has built a boondoggle, a 3 kind of a big dig at voting machines, spending $300 million 4 to design a system that caused hours long lines and has 5 multiple security defects. 6 It’s not just my opinion. Los Angeles County Board 7 of Supervisors was dissatisfied with the system. Supervisor 8 Janice Hahn said publicly that L.A. made it less accessible 9 for people on election day, made it less convenient and less 10 desirable to vote. That is the actual supervisor of Los 11 Angeles. 12 I understand that voters with disabilities need 13 systems that are accessible. Smart Elections works with many 14 voters with disabilities, we care passionately about their 15 rights. And when we speak to them, we understand that many 16 of them feel strongly that they deserve to have their votes 17 counted accurately and not be subject to potential 18 manipulation. So these defects that affect voters with 19 disabilities on the ballot marking devices affect us all, and 20 we all deserve to have our votes counted accurately. 21 So what to do now? The boondoggle is built. 22 First, don’t export the system, and I mean that seriously. 23 The rest of the state and the rest of the country does not 24 want or need these problems. 25 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 40 1 MS. FRIESDAT: Second, do everything in your power 2 to transform this system into a system that security experts 3 and voters can support and have confidence in, especially 4 following the points of the California Clean Money Campaign 5 letter that we signed. 6 And in particular, I want to say something that 7 isn’t mentioned in that letter. I have tremendous concerns 8 about the auditability of this system. There was a court 9 suit that was brought now because Long Beach Reform Coalition 10 wanted to recount an election that has –- 11 MR. ROSS: Two minutes. 12 MS. FRIESDAT: -- 116 votes, and they were unable 13 to do that because of the tremendous expense, almost $200,000 14 estimate to recount a simple, one simple election. That’s 15 terrible. That is terrible design, terrible administration. 16 Thank you. 17 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you so 18 much, and thanks for your public comment. 19 Next up, we have Ann McKeown. 20 NaKesha, are you able to unmute her? It’s 21 M-C-K-E-O-W-N. If I can read my own handwriting. 22 MS. ROBINSON First name is Ann? 23 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Ann, yes. 24 With the Antelope Valley Progressive Democrats. 25 MS. ROBINSON: Is she a call-in user because she’s CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 41 1 not listed –- oh, I’m sorry, you’re here now. 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 3 MS. McKEOWN: Okay. Great. Thank you so much. 4 I’m Ann McKeown. I’m first vice president of the Antelope 5 Valley Progressive Dems and also an elected delegate from 6 Assembly District 36. 7 I’m speaking today not as an election’s expert, but 8 to convey comments that I solicited from people before this 9 meeting. Several of them have already been mentioned. 10 The first one is the more button. It sounds very 11 simple, but there’s a masters you could doctor up a thesis in 12 there somewhere looking at the impact of the ballot order of 13 names. People who end up on the second or third page appear 14 to be clearly at disadvantage. Many of our older members 15 confess to having just thought that first page of names was 16 it and choosing from those. That’s tragic and needs to be 17 fixed. 18 I’m not going to reiterate the comments about the 19 security issues. They are clear. I am actually appalled 20 that we’re having this hearing now when in particular the QR 21 code issue was raised last March, and I still haven’t seen 22 any indication that that is going to change. 23 The other comment came from people who are 24 differently abled that there were two women in our group who 25 were able to vote by themselves for the first time, and that CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 42 1 was remarkably meaningful. So while we are incredibly 2 concerned with the security issues, I think it’s worth noting 3 that it was a positive change for some folks. Thanks so 4 much. 5 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 6 much. 7 Next up we have Nancy Neff with the California 8 Clean Money Campaign. 9 NaKesha, did you unmute –- 10 MS. ROBINSON: What’s the name again? 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Nancy Neff. 12 MS. NEFF: Hello? Can you hear me? 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, thank 14 you. 15 MS. NEFF: Oh, good. Thank you. I’m Nancy Neff 16 from Palo Alto. I volunteer as a Clean Money regional 17 coordinator in Northern California. 18 Our volunteers are in strong support of open source 19 paper ballot voting systems, and before the pandemic, they 20 collected many signatures on petitions for it. People are up 21 in arms about everything to do with voting being fair and 22 square in this very important election. Because LA’s new 23 voting system could be either a good or a bad model for many 24 more counties and states, our supporters will be extremely 25 disappointed if Secretary Padilla certifies it with so many CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 43 1 serious flaws. They are shocked that we are this close to 2 November with a quarter of California’s voters about to use 3 such a flawed system. It is imperative that all the flaws 4 listed in the coalition letter be fixed before final 5 certification is granted. 6 These things are basic common sense. Offer real 7 paper ballots at the polls, collect all ballots in good old- 8 fashioned ballot boxes, make machines read the voter-verified 9 texts not QR codes, make publicly funded source code public. 10 All of the activists, no matter where I speak, are very 11 concerned about these security issues and hope Secretary 12 Padilla will require them to be fixed. Thank you. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 14 Next up we have Chris Hays. And then just to give 15 people a heads up before we move on to the next ones, after 16 Mr. Hays, we have Pascale Macleod. And David Schmidt and 17 Pamela Smith up on deck. 18 So NaKesha, are you able to unmute Chris Hays? 19 It’s H-A-Y-S. 20 MR. HAYS: Good morning. Can you hear me? 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 22 We can, yes. 23 MR. HAYS: Okay. Very good. My name is Chris 24 Hays. I’m with Protect California Ballots.org. Dr. Judith 25 Alter, chair of this group, sends her regrets she had a prior CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 44 1 commitment this morning. 2 I want to make a comment about QR codes and I want 3 to bring up something that hasn’t been brought up yet. 4 There’s a reality with this QR code that’s being a bit 5 overlooked in all of -- and by the way, everything that’s 6 been said about the QR codes so far this morning is accurate. 7 But there’s another problem. You place your vote on this 8 wonderful machine, and you check your ballot and all that. 9 But the QR code is not generated by the voter, it’s generated 10 by a computer inside the ballot marking device. 11 Anytime there is a computer, there’s a potential 12 for hack. I don’t care if it’s air gapped, committed insider 13 crooks can always get at this stuff, and so we’ve got to be 14 very, very careful. We should never put a computer between 15 the voter and the counting devices. That just should not be 16 done. The QR code needs to go. And that was point one I 17 wanted to raise. By the way, I’m a retired IT professional, 18 so I know a little about these things. 19 Second brief point I wanted to make, no one’s 20 said -- not much has been said about the electronic poll 21 books this morning. When I voted in the primary last March, 22 there was as a problem with these things. It was -- I, you 23 know, went to the signature thing and then I sort of put my 24 signature, except it wasn’t responding, and we tried again 25 and again. But all of a sudden, everything I marked, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 45 1 including three attempts at a signature, suddenly appeared on 2 the screen. I said oh, so I tried to fix it, and then the 3 thing timed out because I hadn’t done the result in time. 4 Then we had to start over. 5 My sense is you had a computer that was struggling 6 for bandwidth, and this has been a problem across the 7 country. When electronic poll books have been advocated, 8 they generally always underestimate the bandwidth needed on 9 an election day scenario. People will procrastinate, I don’t 10 care how much early voting there is, people by their nature 11 will procrastinate, and there will be a rush of voters on 12 election day. You have to allow for that or you get into 13 trouble very, very, very quickly. 14 And I’d just like to add one little question people 15 to contemplate –- 16 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 17 MR. HAYS: Thank you. A quick question for people 18 to think about. I am a perfectly healthy normal 19 nonhandicapped person and fully able to fill out a paper 20 ballot and read it and fill it out. Why am I being penalized 21 and handicapped by having to vote on a system designed for 22 the handicapped? Doesn’t make any sense. Thank you, and I 23 yield the floor to you. 24 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 25 Mr. Hays, I appreciate your public comments. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 46 1 And next up, we have Pascale Macleod. 2 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Pascale, please? 3 Pascale, are you able to hear us? 4 MS. MACLEOD: I’m not -- hello, can you hear me 5 now? 6 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes. Now we 7 can. 8 MS. MACLEOD: Oh, thank you. My name is Pascale 9 Macleod, and I’m from San Francisco. I do not represent any 10 organization. I am just a very concerned voter. 11 Our democracy has been falling apart for a few 12 years now, and at the very heart of democracy is the ability 13 to vote. To cast your vote, every single person in our 14 country should be able to cast a vote, including in 15 California, and it should be counted as it was cast, and 16 there should be no ifs, ands, or buts. 17 I don’t understand why two months out from our 18 election that our office that is representing the integrity 19 of our election in California is having this public comment 20 hearing and there are four security lapses that have been 21 propose -- that have identified directly and are being put 22 forward by the California Clean Money Campaign and 47 23 national and state organizations. I have not been involved 24 in this process, and I am shocked and dismayed and distressed 25 that this is going on in California. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 47 1 There is way more than the four proposals that 2 there are few people who have added information today about 3 some new things that I wasn’t aware of. And in particular, I 4 have family that votes around the world there in Europe, and 5 they vote with paper ballots. I don’t understand why we have 6 all these machines, et cetera. I think that this is a source 7 of problems. Paper ballots through clear transparent boxes 8 and that are recounted automatically should be the process 9 all throughout our country. 10 But what’s going on in L.A., what happened last 11 March, is astounding. I could not believe it. I’ve been 12 voting in California 20 years, and I don’t know why we’re 13 doing this now. We should be focused on the problems with 14 COVID, with wildfires, and relocation of homes that might 15 affect people’s address being checked, verified. We should 16 be making it easier for people to vote in California and 17 focusing on the issues that are today’s issues. 18 This is something that has been clear since the 19 2000 election, the 2004 national election, we’ve had problems 20 with election security, and we’ve had problems in Georgia and 21 plenty of other states. California, I thought, was the 22 leader. I’m counting on Secretary Padilla. I didn’t even 23 focus on Secretary Padilla until now, and I trusted you, and 24 I don’t understand why this is going on now. 25 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 48 1 MS. MACLEOD: So please fix all four of these 2 problems, ensure -- and more -- and ensure that nothing is 3 confirmed except in a conditional capacity, if that, and fix 4 all these problems. Show people that transparency and 5 integrity of elections counts. California’s counting on 6 this, the country’s watching this, the world is watching 7 this. Enough is enough. We’ve got to show -- 8 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 9 MS. MACLEOD: Thank you very much. 10 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 11 much, Ms. Macleod, appreciate the public comments. 12 Next up we have David Schmidt. And after Mister -- 13 after David Schmidt, we’ll have Pamela Smith, Janeen 14 Pedersen, and Kim Alexander will be on deck. 15 So NaKesha, are you able to unmute David Schmidt? 16 (Background voices) 17 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: NaKesha, we’re 18 getting some feedback, I think. 19 (Background voices) 20 MS. ROBINSON: That’s Mr. Schmidt. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: It sounds like 22 Mr. Schmidt is attending to some other business. 23 We’ll go ahead and move forward and come back to 24 Mr. Schmidt. 25 Pamela Smith is next up. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 49 1 NaKesha, can you unmute Pamela Smith, please? 2 MS. SMITH: Oh, hi. Can you hear me? 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 4 morning. 5 MS. SMITH: Hi, good morning. Thank you so much. 6 I am a mom with two very computer-savvy millennial voters who 7 are well-aware that their votes are not secure with our 8 present system. We’ve been working hard to try and bring 9 about change and have been volunteering with California Clean 10 Money for the last few years. I’m also a member of a very 11 large Home Sharers Democratic Club. But today, I am speaking 12 as an individual. 13 We’ve worked tirelessly to try and create a new 14 secure voting system in California that we hope will 15 eventually spread across America. Unfortunately, the new 16 voting VSP -- VSAP system has three serious security flaws 17 that Dr. Tanner, Philip, and Trent Lange have very eloquently 18 expressed. I support their research and findings. 19 I ask you, Secretary Padilla, who I voted for, to 20 please not give final approval of the VSAP systems with these 21 three blatant security flaws until they have been corrected. 22 Californians have the ability to develop a very secure voting 23 system with all our resources that will hopefully be admired 24 and adopted all over –- I’m not very good at this, just a 25 mom –- throughout our country. We need to gain the people’s CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 50 1 trust from the very beginning by developing a very secure 2 voting system. 3 I am also a big believer in the open source voting 4 system that I wish was part of this. Thank you kindly for 5 your work. 6 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you so 7 much, Ms. Smith. You did just fine. I commend you for your 8 public comments. And I want to just let everyone know that 9 you guys lucked out today from my three kids coming in and 10 wanting to be a part of this –- in the background, in the 11 background noise. So you guys are all being saved today from 12 that. 13 Next up we have Janeen Pedersen. Janeen -- 14 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Janeen Pedersen? 15 MS. PEDERSEN: Yes, hello. I’m Janeen Pedersen, 16 hi. I’m a longtime poll worker, 30-plus years, and I’m also 17 a member of Los Angeles County Voter Action Coalition, and 18 I’m a group leader in Indivisible. 19 I represent many, many voters, and I’m appalled 20 that we’re here today talking about this now. You know, 21 we’re 60 days out from a major life-changing election and we 22 have security flaws. I did training last year in Norwalk for 23 L.A. County voting systems, and I went out there and held 24 tutorials for the public, little knowing about the security 25 features that I was, and I was pushing these machines on CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 51 1 behalf of the county registrar. 2 When I found out that Mr. Padilla signed off on the 3 security on these machines, I couldn’t believe it. A lot of 4 unhappy voters. We are actually working very hard to make 5 sure everybody votes by mail. The people I represent do not 6 have confidence in this voting system. Why are we here now? 7 Why? This is unacceptable, I’m sorry. I am angry. 8 And also, you know, I heard that, you know, the 9 county registrar does not want to have separate ballot boxes 10 to put ballots into to bypass the code issues and all of this 11 stuff. And because one of the reasons being that the 12 disabled couldn’t get to the box. Excuse me, that is not a 13 reason. I have worked the polls. We always have a top 14 priority for people with disabilities, and people who are 15 extremely disabled usually don’t come into the polls, but 16 people who are disabled come in usually with people who can 17 help them. But we as staff always make it a priority, so 18 that is not a reason. 19 And I just see flaws like this all the time that we 20 are being told things that don’t necessarily connect the 21 dots. We are not stupid. So I want to fix on this, I 22 don’t -- I don’t want anything to go wrong. Our primaries 23 were used as a test run, and that’s -- that’s unacceptable. 24 It was a mess out there. And we’re going to have another 25 mess unless our elected officials get onboard and fix this CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 52 1 now. And I am angry and we are angry and it better be done. 2 That’s all. We just spent all our tax dollars, $900 million. 3 Are you kidding me? I’m done. Thank you. 4 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 5 Ms. Pedersen, for your public comment. 6 Next up is Kim Alexander. 7 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Ms. Alexander? 8 MS. ALEXANDER: Hi, can you hear me? 9 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, thank 10 you. 11 MS. ALEXANDER: Great. Good morning, thank you. 12 This is Kim Alexander with the California Voter Foundation. 13 We are still reviewing the published reports and thank the 14 Secretary of State’s office for providing those and will 15 submit written comment by the September 15th deadline. 16 And today I just have a question that perhaps LA 17 County’s folks can respond to. I did notice that the 18 application for this upgrade was dated February 27th, which is 19 before the March 3rd primary. And following the primary, 20 there were numerous additional issues and problems that were 21 identified by the Board of Supervisors and voters and 22 election staff. Some of these included excessive wait times, 23 inoperable voting machines, and other technical issues. And 24 I just wondered to what extent those additional issues are 25 covered by this update. Thank you. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 53 1 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 2 you, Ms. Alexander. 3 Next up, we have Cynthia Maher. And just, again, 4 so everyone can be prepared, after Cynthia Maher, we have Jim 5 Davidson, Patricia Kraegel, and then Emily Levy. 6 And that is the end of my list for speakers, so if 7 I have missed you and you wish to speak, please, again, put 8 it in the chat, and if you aren’t able to put it in the chat, 9 raise your hand, and I will look through that for hand 10 raises. As well as you can send an email to 11 votingsystems@sos.ca.gov and let them know. 12 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Ms. Maher? 13 MS. MAHER: Can you hear me? 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, we can. 15 Good morning. 16 MS. MAHER: My name is Cynthia and I’m from Boyle 17 Heights. I am also a member of the Democratic Socialists of 18 L.A., and I also volunteer with California Clean Money. 19 I think it’s very important for California to lead 20 the way in making sure that our elections are safe. It is 21 very important that Secretary Padilla will require the use of 22 separate ordinary ballot boxes for the November election and 23 not give final certification to this system until L.A. County 24 addresses all of the issues, all of the security problems. I 25 previously worked as a poll worker trainer throughout L.A. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 54 1 County registrar on behalf of registrar recorder. 2 Before the VSAP system, there was so many problems 3 that we dealt with. Language issues, people that were very 4 old, I trained poll workers all over the county from Beverly 5 Hills, Pacific Palisades, Montebello, East L.A., I’m very 6 concerned about the security issues identified in the Clean 7 Money and Election Expert Coalition letter. If these issues 8 are not addressed and fixed, this election is going to be 9 fucking disastrous. Disastrous. This issue needs to be 10 addressed. 11 I mean, I’m scared. I’m really scared at what 12 could possibly happen. All these glitches, the QR codes –- 13 we could be attacked. We don’t know this. We don’t know 14 what could happen. Thank you for listening to my comment. 15 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you for 16 your public comment, Ms. Maher. 17 Next up we have Jim Davidson. 18 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Mr. Davidson? 19 MR. DAVIDSON: Hi, this is Jim Davidson. I’m from 20 Los Altos and I’m with the California Clean Money Campaign. 21 I’m concerned about all of the issues that have 22 been raised by the other speakers. I won’t go into the 23 details. I think the previous speakers have done a superb 24 job calling them out. I’ll just say plus one and I hope that 25 Secretary Padilla will withhold certification until those CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 55 1 various issues are addressed. Thank you. 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 3 Mr. Davidson, appreciate the public comments. 4 Next up we have Patricia Kraegel. 5 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Patricia Kraegel’s? 6 It’s K-R-A-E-G-E-L. 7 MS. KRAEGEL: That’s correct. 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 9 MS. KRAEGEL: Hi, can you hear me? 10 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, thank 11 you. 12 MS. KRAEGEL: Oh good. Thanks for doing this. 13 It’s really beneficial. 14 I just want to hopefully be quick. We sent the 15 coalition letter with the four security problems to the 16 Department of State, the California Department of State, back 17 in February, and those items were not addressed then and now 18 we’re down to the wire. And security of the election in L.A. 19 County will be questioned if these problems are not fixed 20 before November. 21 I would be disappointed if Secretary Padilla didn’t 22 fix these problems. I voted for him twice, and it would be 23 very -- make me very unhappy if he didn’t fix them. I work 24 at the polls in Sonoma County and we have hand-marked paper 25 ballots and separate voting machines for those who need them, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 56 1 who can’t use hand-marked ballots. We never have any 2 disabled people come in because they all send them vote-by- 3 mail, apparently. But I know they are used in some areas. 4 And we don’t have any problem that I know of with the way 5 that we vote. Computerized systems are just ripe for 6 problems, in my opinion. And we’ve used hand-marked ballots, 7 I don’t know, forever, and I don’t know why we need to change 8 now. 9 So if we do need to change, if that’s -- if that’s 10 just inevitable, please do not authorize these machines until 11 they are spotless for security. Thank you. 12 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 13 you very much. 14 Next up we have Emily Levy. And before Emily 15 begins, I’d just like to -- I’ve gotten several additional 16 people, so we can give everyone a heads up of who’s next. 17 I’ll give you the next few. Pat Schwinn will be after Emily 18 Levy, and then Virginia Martin, and then Garland Favorito, 19 will be after that. 20 Again, Emily Levy is up now. 21 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Emily? And if 22 there’s anyone else that I have missed –- there’s several 23 more that are on there, but I’m going through the list. 24 Again, if I have not gotten to you, I will, but make sure 25 that you have put it in the chat or emailed CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 57 1 votingsystems@sos.ca.gov. Thanks. 2 MS. LEVY: Am I unmuted? 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: You are. Good 4 morning. 5 MS. LEVY: Thank you. Thank you for the 6 opportunity to speak and for listening to all of what we have 7 to say, and I hope that these comments will be conveyed to 8 Secretary Padilla and everyone else who needs to hear them 9 including Dean Logan. 10 I am the founder and director of Srutineers.org, 11 which is a national nonpartisan election protection 12 organization. I’m a lifelong California resident, though not 13 L.A. County, and I’ve also worked as a poll worker in 14 California. 15 I really appreciate the intention behind the 16 creation of VSAP and I’m aware that Los Angeles County, 17 because of its size, geography, and language diversity, 18 especially has some really unique challenges. That said, I 19 do not believe that the VSAP has met this challenges in a way 20 that permit a fair and transparent and secure election, an 21 accessible election to be conducted in Los Angeles County. 22 I share the concerns that I have heard repeated by 23 speaker after speaker here. This system is not okay the way 24 it is. It must not be certified, get final certification in 25 its current state, and there are some mitigations that CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 58 1 absolutely need to happen before the November general 2 election, including the use of separate ballot boxes. We 3 need to make sure that the ballots are not passing under the 4 printerhead after the voters have voted them. 5 The way the system is now with the QR code and the 6 printhead issues, there’s actually no way to know if the vote 7 counts are accurate, and even an audit can’t even determine 8 that because we don’t know if the paper ballots have the real 9 votes on them or if because of manipulation or hacking or 10 rigging, the QR codes perhaps don’t reflect what the voters 11 are told, that their votes are –- or that additional votes 12 have been marked onto the ballots after the voter has voted 13 them. So there’s nothing to audit that we know is real. 14 We really need all voters to be offered the option 15 of real paper ballots whether they’re printed in advance or 16 printed by a valid on-demand system. And not only for those 17 paper ballots to exist but for every voter to be offered the 18 option to use one when they come in to vote if the voters 19 report in person. 20 MR. ROSS: Two minutes and 30 seconds. 21 MS. LEVY: Just in closing, I want to remind you 22 that elections belong to the people, not to the government. 23 You are representing the voters in putting together this 24 system. We need to have a system that we can trust to be 25 accurate and transparent and accessible and to give us the CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 59 1 real election results every single time. 2 Finally, I’d like to ask the question of what will 3 be done with the comments you’re collecting here today? 4 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 5 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 6 you for your public comment. 7 Next we have Pat Schwinn. 8 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Pat Schwinn? It’s 9 S-C-H-W-I-N-N, I believe? 10 MS. SCHWINN: I am unmuted. 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 12 MS. SCHWINN: My name is Pat Schwinn. I live in 13 Oakland, California. 14 I became of the security issues with the new VSAP 15 voting system from reading an email from the California Clean 16 Money organization. And as many of the other individuals 17 have already said, there are significant security issues that 18 need to be resolved, otherwise it’s just absolutely 19 unacceptable for this system to be approved. 20 But I’d like to say my biggest concern to put extra 21 emphasis on, this is not just about is the vote misrecorded, 22 it’s also about sewing distrust in the system. We need a 23 system that people trust, and this one doesn’t do that. 24 Thank you very much. 25 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 60 1 you for your public comment. 2 Next up we have Virginia Martin. And again, too, 3 just so people can be ready, we have Virginia Martin, Garland 4 Favorito, Eloise Hamann, and then Laurie Parizo after that up 5 on deck. 6 So NaKesha, are you able to unmute Virginia Martin? 7 MS. MARTIN: Good morning, can you hear me? 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 9 morning. 10 MS. MARTIN: Good morning. Thank you so much for 11 hearing all of us. 12 My name is Virginia Martin. I’m from Hudson, New 13 York, and I’m a former election commissioner here in Columbia 14 County. I’ve signed the Clean Money and Election Expert 15 Coalition letter because I’m very concerned about the 16 security issues that it identifies. 17 I have ten years of experience doing very, very 18 robust hand audits of hand-marked paper ballots in a very 19 public and very transparent environment. Our chain of 20 custody was extremely tight. I can tell you that the voters 21 in our county had a high degree of confidence in our 22 elections because they knew they could come and closely watch 23 the counting of ballots that were exactly as voters had 24 marked them. No one was concerned that a rogue printhead or 25 anything else might have changed any voter’s ballot. Nor was CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 61 1 there a barcode on the ballot that might cause them to wonder 2 what it contained. They knew that when they looked at a 3 voted ballot, they were hearing the voter’s voice, voter’s 4 unadulterated voice, and no one else’s voice. 5 Over those ten years, we had a great many very 6 close elections but never during that time did we have a 7 candidate object to our voting machine results or sue for a 8 recount. They knew that what they saw on the full-faced 9 ballots that they watched us audit was what the voters wrote 10 on them and nothing else. 11 I urge the Secretary, please, to eliminate the 12 barcodes or QR codes and to require that these machines be 13 modified to prevent a ballot from following a needless path 14 under the printhead and to offer voters printed full-faced 15 ballots that they can mark by hand. Thank you so much. 16 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank you 17 for your public comment. 18 Next we have Garland Favorito. 19 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Garland? 20 MR. FAVORITO: Good morning. My name is Garland 21 Favorito and I have over 40 years of IT experience and 20 22 years of part-time research into electronic voting systems. 23 I am the cofounder of VOTER GA which stands for Voters 24 Organized for Trusted Election Results in Georgia. We 25 produced a study that may help you. It’s entitled, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 62 1 “Unresolved Security Risk for Ballot Marking Devices.” It is 2 on the news tab of our website of voterga.org. 3 I presented this study at the National Voting Rights 4 task force in Berkeley last year. The study explains 5 security flaws that are common in some types of ballot 6 marking devices. Here are five examples that apply to the 7 L.A. VSAP. 8 Number 1, no BMD should use the same slot for ballot 9 printing and storage because this will allow votes to be 10 added or negated with over votes after the ballot has been 11 verified by the voter and set into the system for storing. 12 Number 2, no BMD system should accumulate hidden 13 votes and QR codes that the voter cannot read. This type of 14 system is 100 percent unverifiable to the voter. 15 Number 3, all BMD should produce full ballots with 16 unselected candidates and referenced language just like a 17 mail-in ballot. This provides for proper auditing and equal 18 protection for the disability community who must use BMDs to 19 cast their votes. 20 Number 4, BMD should not be used for all voters 21 because it is too easy for a hacker to rig an election 22 without detection. Ballot on demand systems provide benefits 23 of BMDs but avoid the inherent BMD security risks and are far 24 more cost effective. 25 Number 5, no postelection audit process, including CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 63 1 risk limiting audits can audit a BMD election because a 2 postelection audit cannot audit what the BMD displayed to a 3 voter. That requires widespread live parallel audits 4 conducted concurrently while an election is in progress. 5 Experts and election officials around the country have deemed 6 that impractical. 7 The VSAP system seems to fail on all five of these 8 major security considerations and is unworthy of any type of 9 certification until all are fixed. Such an insecure system 10 is not only a threat to Los Angeles and California voters -- 11 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 12 MR. FAVORITO: -- but is also nationally recognized 13 as a threat to all American voters in federal elections. 14 Systems with similar security flaws have already been banned 15 in states like Colorado and Texas. 16 Over a decade ago California Voting System Panel 17 recommended unanimous 8 to nothing to ban a flawed 18 (indiscernible) electronic voting system. Secretary Bowen 19 decertified it and California voters was recognized as a 20 leader in election integrity. 21 In Georgia, officials ignored (indiscernible) -- 22 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 23 MR. FAVORITO: -- response to public concerns similar 24 to the ones expressed today and I can tell you from personal 25 experience, in conclusion, that the voters will never trust CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 64 1 such a flawed system to -- 2 (Mr. Favorito was muted.) 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 4 you, Mr. Favorito. 5 Next up we have Eloise Hamann -- Hamann. It’s 6 H-A-M-A-N-N. 7 NaKesha, please unmute Ms. Hamann, please. 8 MS. ROBINSON: Is that Emily? 9 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Eloise, 10 E-L-O-I-S-E is what I have, H-A-M-A-N-N. 11 MS. HAMANN: Hi, can you hear me? 12 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 13 morning. 14 MS. HAMANN: Good morning. Like everyone else, I 15 don’t speak QR and I recognize many people I have worked with 16 in the past who have tirelessly struggled on behalf of a 17 genuine democracy, i.e., one person, one vote. They are most 18 well-informed and I trust them implicitly and echo their 19 concerns. 20 My only difference or new comment is that don’t try 21 to fix this system by November, ditch it. According to an 22 expert, Jenifer Cohn, only hand-marked paper ballots are 23 safe. We live in an environment where there are those who 24 desire for a power at any cost and hackers abound. Thank 25 you. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 65 1 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 2 Next up we have Laurie Parizo. And after that, just 3 before Laurie gets going, we have Mimi Kennedy, Phyllis 4 Klein, and then Jennifer Cohn on deck. So be ready. And I 5 have a list of many, many more after that. 6 So next up is Laurie Parizo. It’s L-A-U-R-I-E, 7 P-A-R-I-Z-O. 8 Are you able to unmute Laurie, NaKesha? 9 MS. PARIZO: Good morning, everyone, it looks like I 10 might be unmuted, am I? 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: You are. Good 12 morning. 13 MS. PARIZO: Thank you. My name is Laurie Parizo and 14 I’m from Orange County. I’m a member of Scrutineers, an 15 election protection group out of San Francisco, although 16 today I’m not speaking on their behalf, I’m speaking on my 17 own. 18 I just recently heard a presentation by the 19 California Clean Money Group and found out about this panel. 20 Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 21 I’m here today to implore Secretary Padilla to make 22 the necessary fixes to the new voting system to give the 23 citizens of L.A. a world class system that they paid for. 24 When the planners initially sat down years ago to design the 25 system, they were undertaking a huge but very commendable CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 66 1 task. L.A. now has a finished product but finds it has a few 2 shortcomings. The answer is simple, fix them. There are 3 voting machines, security experts, use them. 4 Why are people required to insert their completed 5 ballots back into a computer after the ballot has been 6 marked? It should go directly to the ballot box. It 7 doesn’t. Why? Why are people’s votes concealed in QR codes 8 and barcodes? People should be able to review their choices 9 and these codes conceal them. Why do they conceal them? 10 Why are hand-marked paper ballots just like a vote- 11 by-mail ballot not provided at polling places? It’s the 12 safest and least vulnerable method to vote. 13 The voters want to vote. Give them a system that 14 they can have full confidence and trust in. California often 15 sets the example for other states to follow. Do not let this 16 system riddled with security flaws be an example of 17 California’s best work. Voters want to vote but they want 18 their vote to count. I urge Secretary Padilla to do the 19 right thing and fix these security flaws before he certifies 20 the system. Thank you. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you for you 22 public comments. 23 Next up we have Mimi Kennedy with Progressive 24 Democrats of America. 25 NaKesha, please unmute Mimi Kennedy. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 67 1 MS. KENNEDY: Hi, am I unmuted? 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes. Good 3 morning. 4 MS. KENNEDY: I’m working to match the unmuting, am I 5 unmuted now? 6 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, you are 7 unmuted, we can hear you. 8 MS. KENNEDY: Okay. Good. Thank you very much. 9 Yes, Mimi Kennedy for Progressive Democrats of 10 America. I also served by invitation of Dean Logan on the 11 voting system’s advisory panel that set principles for this 12 system, I think four years ago. And I fought for a paper 13 ballot independently counted of any machine that would 14 produce it at a time when people were hoping we could vote by 15 our phones. 16 There are many -- I’ve been a poller girl a long time 17 and people have not mentioned some of the good things that 18 came out of the system, same day registration, canceling your 19 mail ballot, it cut down on provisional voting. 20 However, as the decisions made above our panel were 21 made became very concerned particularly about the QR code 22 being the tabulation device. And I tried to arrange a 23 meeting to get character recognition technology. I was 24 adamant that the same thing that the voters read in text had 25 to be what was being looked at by any tabulation device. And CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 68 1 what’s really interesting is the hand-marked paper ballot 2 that so many of us do want as an alternative is going to be 3 mailed to everybody in Los Angeles and California and our 4 tabulation system for the VSAP will be able to tabulate it, 5 that was built in to the design. 6 So now we’re at the disclosure of the code. I am 7 very concerned besides the QR being printed on the BMD 8 ballot, which we’re getting around with hand-marked paper 9 ballots this November if people will use them, now we have 10 the tabulating code. And I would really like that to be 11 disclosed. I have the same concerns people have talked about 12 here. There is a big confusion in my mind as to what is 13 publicly owned, what is proprietary, what the public is 14 accountable to be able to see and vouch for, what is hidden 15 under some proprietary language. 16 And I will say particular the dialog between the 17 state’s voter registration and the county’s voter 18 registration, something happened that dropped 118,000 voters. 19 I think it was before VSAP, 2018. But we need to be very 20 sure that the code involved in everything VSAP is disclosed 21 and is investigated. And I did warn L.A. that if we went to 22 all new technology all the time and ignored things like the 23 QR code challenge -- 24 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 25 MS. KENNEDY: Thank you. That there would be a huge CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 69 1 pushback. And now we’re here. 2 And I am proud of many of the good things that this 3 new system brought to L.A. but I am concerned and I 4 understand the concerns and the pushback. And I hope 5 Secretary Padilla will listen to that and deal with the QR 6 thing, change that, and the disclosure, make it more secure 7 but disclose. And clarify public and private 8 (indiscernible) -- 9 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 10 MS. KENNEDY: Thanks. 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 12 you. 13 Next up we have Phyllis Klein. 14 NaKesha, please unmute Phyllis Klein. 15 MS. KLEIN: Hi, can you hear me? 16 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 17 morning. 18 MR. KLEIN: Oh, good morning. And thank you so much 19 for this process. 20 My name is Phyllis Klein and I live in Palo Alto and 21 I’m affiliated with Clean Money but I’m calling as an 22 individual. Although I did hear about this hearing via Clean 23 Money and I really appreciate knowing about it so that I can 24 participate. 25 There are, to my knowledge, and what we heard about CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 70 1 already from other -- many other comments, safe ways to make 2 voting by machine possible. 3 And just on a personal note, I would like to say I 4 have been devastated by what I hear and read about efforts to 5 repress voting in this country. And so I wanted to add my 6 voice to all of the really knowledgeable and wise comments 7 that have already been made to implore Mr. Padilla to take 8 action on issues that have been scientifically proven to 9 restore faith in some kind of democratic process. If this 10 system goes wider, we will be undermining our ability to have 11 fair elections. And in California, we can do better than 12 this. Thank you. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. And 14 next up we have Jennifer Cohn. 15 NaKesha, please unmute Jennifer Cohn. 16 MS. COHN: Hi, my name is Jennifer Cohn. I’m an 17 attorney and election security advocate. 18 And thank you very much for allowing me and so many 19 others to speak today about their concerns. 20 I wanted to bring up something that I don’t think has 21 been mentioned which is a concern the voters can vote 22 anywhere in the county model at least as deployed on election 23 day so I’m not talking about really early voting. 24 The concerns I have are at least twofold. Number 1, 25 I believe it was because of this model that it proved to be CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 71 1 so expensive and prohibitively really expensive to conduct an 2 audit in Long Beach. 3 Number 2, this voters can vote anywhere appears to 4 preclude backup paper poll books for the electronic poll 5 books that failed so miserably in Los Angeles County during 6 the primary. Brennan Center has said that everyone who uses 7 electronic poll books should have backup paper poll books. 8 We don’t even need the Brennan Center to say that it’s common 9 sense that a voter can vote anywhere model precludes them. 10 And I want to talk about the e-poll books for a 11 minute. They came from a company called KnowInk. It caused 12 massive problems not only in Los Angeles County but also in 13 Georgia. The vendor is KnowInk whose managing director is a 14 former Republic election official and whose product developer 15 once campaigned for Ed Martin who is now the president of the 16 Phyllis Schlafly Eagles which opposes the Equal Rights 17 Amendment. His company has become infamous for making 18 donations to election officials who then choose their 19 equipment that fails. And I’m wondering if here has been any 20 investigation or explanation as to why Los Angeles County 21 happened to choose this particular vendor. I think that 22 really needs to be looked into. 23 The other thing I’m concerned about is that these 24 electronic poll books that connect to Wi-Fi are being used to 25 activate the voting machines so they are part of the voting CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 72 1 system in effect and they’re doing that by encoding 2 activation cards that are then inserted into the voting 3 machines. That makes the voting system itself vulnerable to 4 a denial of service attack. You take down the electronic 5 poll books, then you in effect take down the voting machines. 6 And the security issues with using electronic Wi-Fi 7 connected electronic poll books to encode activation cards 8 are then inserted into the ballot marking devices. That has 9 not been investigated yet by independent election security 10 experts. And I think it really needs to. Talking about the 11 possibility of using Internet to get malware into the ballot 12 marking devices. And again (indiscernible) -- 13 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 14 MS. COHN: -- for early voting. So we need backup 15 paper poll books and we very much need real hand-marked paper 16 ballots at the very least as a backup at the polling places. 17 Thank you. 18 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 19 Next up we have Robin Gibson. And after that, before 20 Robin Gibson gives a public comment, we -- just so everyone 21 is ready, we have Susan Greenhall, Ann Harvey, and then Lynne 22 Huidekoper is on deck. 23 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Robin Gibson? 24 MS. GIBSON: Hello. Good morning. 25 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Okay. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 73 1 MS. GIBSON: Can you hear me? Can you hear me? 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, yes. 3 Good morning. 4 MS. GIBSON: Good morning. I agree strongly with 5 what everyone has said before me so eloquently so I want to 6 touch on two other subjects which are the tests and the 7 auditing. 8 So years ago we had DREs here in L.A. and they were 9 decertified by Debra Bowen, thankfully. And they were 10 recognized as not reliable to vote on by the entire country. 11 And election integrity computer scientists have said that 12 this BMD system, ballot marking device, is the new DRE, it 13 does the same thing, a computer marks your ballot. 14 So I wanted to draw attention to Mr. Padilla to -- to 15 give thanks that people are here speaking of ways that you 16 can fix this system and make it useable rather than a request 17 to just scrap the whole system. Because it is known to be a 18 bad system. And it’s not -- voters don’t have confidence and 19 we’re not grown to not have confidence. We should be able to 20 verify that our votes are cast as we want them to be cast. 21 So the testing. The first set of tests were done by 22 Freeman, Craft, & McGregor, I’m pretty sure. And at that 23 time, I spoke with the supervisors early last February. And 24 speaking with the staff member of one of the supervisors, I 25 said, you know, you can’t certify this system. Look, there CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 74 1 are more than 40 security issues. The system failed more 2 than 40 -- in 40 different security issues. And she said to 3 me, well, we have another test that says that the systems are 4 safe, so we believe that it’s safe. Even though it was 5 proven not to be; in every area, it failed every security 6 test. 7 So I’d like to know why Mr. Padilla has used in 8 company -- 9 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 10 MS. GIBSON: Oh, my. I would request that Freeman, 11 Craft, & McGregor redo their tests. And I’ll -- here’s -- 12 here’s -- this new test, for example, it says review of this 13 item determine that QR codes can be scanned by the voter and 14 comparing their ballot selection to the codes verify that 15 their votes are correct. 16 So we would verify a ballot which could -- 17 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 18 MS. GIBSON: Sorry. Okay. Thank you. 19 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you very 20 much for your public comments. 21 Next we have Susan Greenhall. 22 NaKesha, are you able to unmute? 23 MS. GREENHALL: Can you hear me? 24 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, we can. 25 Good morning. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 75 1 MS. GREENHALL: Okay. Good. You can hear me now 2 because now it’s saying muted again. 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, we can hear 4 you. 5 MS. GREENHALL: Thank you. I’m Susan Greenhall, I’m 6 the senior advisor and election security for Free Speech for 7 People, a nonpartisan -- a national nonpartisan not for 8 profit organization that is protecting democracy for all the 9 people, including our election systems. 10 We have expressed our profound concern and urge the 11 secretary not to certify the VSAP system in advance of the 12 disastrous March primary because of so many of the problems 13 that were discovered during the testing. And I would like to 14 echo and thank the previous speaker for her very astute 15 comments about the difference in the testing quality. 16 Freeman, Craft, McGregor has been proven to do a very 17 thorough and exhaustive testing regime when they are looking 18 at these systems. And SLI is not as thorough and they also 19 do not have the same -- frequently do not engage testers or 20 scientists of the same caliber or background. So this is a 21 very important issue that the testing should be done by the 22 same testers to examine the same problems. And this is 23 something that we have written to the Secretary before the -- 24 when we had initial urged him not to certify the VSAP system 25 that anything that has been identified as problematic, as not CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 76 1 compliant, needs to be remedied and then retested 2 independently, which gets to my next point. 3 Any of these tests or reviews of the system should be 4 conducted by independent researchers because what we have 5 seen that the county is working with the vendor and has made 6 representations that certain issues would be resolved by 7 working with the vendor without a clear plan of action as to 8 how to do that. Or an independent analysis of how those 9 issues will be remediated which is another significant 10 concern regarding the certification and the testing of these 11 machines. 12 During -- after -- sorry, after the primary in March, 13 there were independent investigation -- 14 MR. ROSS: Two minutes, 30 seconds. 15 MS. GREENHALL: Thank you. Commissioned -- an 16 independent investigation commissioned which unfortunately 17 has not been fully released to the public. However, a 18 summary was released which found overarching quality 19 breakdowns and vendor management issues. Inadequate vendor 20 and timeline management resulted in lack of quality assurance 21 for election processes and technology deployments or 22 technology vendor management resulted in the lack of 23 identification (indiscernible) -- 24 MR. ROSS: Three minutes. 25 MS. GREENHALL: -- issues. This lead to longer CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 77 1 wage -- 2 (Ms. Greenhall was muted.) 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 4 you. 5 Next up we have Ann Harvey. 6 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Ann Harvey? 7 MS. HARVEY: Hi. My name is Ann Harvey, I live in 8 Oakland. And I am a volunteer with 350 Action and also 9 California Clean Money Campaign. And I’ve been in Sacramento 10 in past years to push for open source and paper ballot backed 11 up voting. 12 I’m on the phone calling other states where there’s 13 more voter suppression trying to help get out the votes for 14 November and I’m really dismayed that California is 15 apparently with the huge number of votes in L.A. County is 16 not leading but is really falling -- falling apart on its 17 duty if this is certified as it is. 18 We really need to have confidence in our votes and I 19 hope Secretary Padilla does not certify this until the 20 problems that the experts have pointed out are fixed and that 21 there is a direct paper ballot that people can see the final 22 markings on it before it’s submitted this November in L.A. 23 Thank you. 24 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 25 you. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 78 1 Next up we have Lynne Huidekoper -- Huidekoper. 2 Sorry. I apologize for messing up people’s last name. And 3 just before Lynne begins, I want to give a heads up. After 4 Lynne is Adriene Coulter, Roy Nirenberg, and then Nancy 5 Rader. 6 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Lynne? 7 MS. HUIDEKOPER: Can you hear me? 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can at the 9 moment. 10 MS. HUIDEKOPER: Good morning. If Colorado’s 11 Secretary of State banned using QR codes for vote counting, 12 they’re saying codes could be among the next target of 13 attack, potential subject to manipulation, why would 14 Secretary Padilla allow them? And I ironically have been 15 thinking about the concerns about Russians hacking our 16 systems and it sounds like they’re (indiscernible) their 17 place. 18 There’s other concerns about vote counting in 19 California. That is they discovered more registered voters 20 than actual eligible voters. So we already have some 21 problems in parts of this state and why would we want to make 22 it that another issue? Everybody’s looking at California. 23 I wanted to know the results of an election in San 24 Mateo County. I was unable to see the results because there 25 were 1 million votes that still had to be counted in March, CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 79 1 and the deadline to -- for certification had to be keep being 2 extended so I was unable to see the results of a close 3 election. So there’s all kinds of problems related to this. 4 And I just feel that there should be regular ballot 5 boxes so people can drop a regular paper ballot in it. It’s 6 very simple to do, I was a poll inspector for years. It 7 works and it’s fair and it’s reliable and trustworthy. Thank 8 you. 9 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 10 Next up we have Adriene Coulter. 11 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Adriene Coulter? 12 It’s C-O-U-L-T-E-R. 13 MS. COULTER: Yes. Can you hear me? 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: I can. Good 15 morning. 16 MS. COULTER: Good morning. I’m Adriene Coulter with 17 Indivisible Ventura. Obviously not in Los Angeles but we are 18 Californians who are very interested in the security of our 19 voting. Prepandemic, our group, along with other local 20 community groups ran neighborhood polling places under our 21 county’s adopt a poll program. The majority of voters used 22 paper ballots and along with one ADA electronic marking 23 device per precinct which printed out paper ballot for voter 24 verification. The paper ballots went into simple boxes like 25 we did in second grade class elections. We had almost zero CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 80 1 waiting. 2 Along with our local League of Women Voters, we met 3 with our county’s Clerk Recorder Mark Lunn to review the new 4 pandemic procedures, equipment, and election security using 5 L.A., unfortunately, as a cautionary tale for what not to do. 6 Our neighborhood polls staffed by many older volunteers are 7 gone for this election, but our voter centers will be using 8 paper ballots generated by ballot on demand printers. 9 All the efforts we Venturans have taken to make 10 our -- to make sure our county’s voting is safe from 11 interference comes to nothing when the county to our south, 12 the biggest county in the state, as big as many other states 13 on its own, doesn’t take the same care over what is admirable 14 but a mirage of universal accessibility. 15 Please, for the most important election of our 16 lifetime, frankly, possibly according to our president, our 17 last election, please don’t approve a system that has all the 18 security flaws outlined in the Clean Money coalition letter. 19 It affects every single one of us. Fix this mess in a 20 transparent way or replace it with what we do which is hand- 21 marked paper ballots. Thank you. 22 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you for 23 public comment. 24 Next up we have Roy Nirenberg. 25 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Roy Nierenberg? It’s CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 81 1 N-I-E-R-E-N-B-E-R-G. 2 MR. NIERENBERG: Hear me? Hi, can you hear me? 3 Great. 4 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 5 morning. 6 MR. NIERENBERG: This is Roy Nierenberg. I’m -- I’m 7 part of California Clean Money but I’m speaking as an 8 individual. 9 I am a regulatory -- former regulatory lawyer and a 10 software guy. So I understand many aspects of the problem. 11 And I’m -- I’ve devoted my life now to clean elections and to 12 voter registration. I think you cannot certify it unless 13 these are fixed. I’m very concerned with the security flaws 14 that have been identified. And also working with vendor and 15 relying upon the vendor to test this. It hasn’t -- when that 16 happens, it hasn’t worked. I would be glad to be a tester 17 and help in any way that I can. Thank you very much. 18 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 19 Next up we have Nancy Rader. 20 MS. RADER: Good afternoon, my name is -- can you 21 hear me? Okay. My name is Nancy -- 22 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes. Good 23 morning. 24 MS. RADER: My name is Nancy Rader, I’m in Berkeley, 25 California. We’re hearing a lot in the news about how CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 82 1 vulnerable our voting system is nationally but I had assumed 2 in California at least we didn’t have to worry, that our 3 election officials were doing all of this, you know, very 4 seriously and doing all they could. So I was really upset to 5 learn that in fact we may not be doing everything we should 6 be to protect our elections. 7 I heard this morning low risk of failure. Low risk 8 is not good enough, we really need no risk. So I really urge 9 Secretary Padilla, please require the serious security flaws 10 in Los Angeles’s VSAP open source system to be fixed before 11 it gets final certification and is replicated elsewhere. 12 California really needs to set a high standard. Thank you. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 14 Next up we have Gary Bailey. And before Gary Bailey 15 speaks, just to give everyone a heads up on who’s up next. 16 We have Dale Axelrod, Darlene Little, and then Stephanie 17 Dennis on deck for speaking. 18 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Gary Bailey? 19 MS. ROBINSON: Sorry, I’m not seeing the name. Can 20 you raise your hand in the feature? 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: It’s Gary Bailey, 22 B-A-I-L-E-Y. 23 All right. We’ll go ahead. Maybe they’re one of the 24 ones that are a call-in -- on the call-in line. 25 Gary Bailey, if that’s the case, can you please email CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 83 1 us to let us know your call-in number so we can line it up. 2 So we’ll come back to Mr. Bailey. 3 That means Dale Axelrod is up next. 4 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Mr. Axelrod? 5 MR. AXELROD: Hello. 6 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 7 MR. AXELROD: Good morning. Can you hear me? 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can, yes. 9 Thank you. 10 MR. AXELROD: Thank you. This is Dale Axelrod. I’m 11 speaking on behalf of the Sonoma County Democratic Party. 12 And urging that we join the Clean Money coalition 13 letter and urge conditional certification for the VSAP 2.1 in 14 the November election. And those conditions include the 15 provision of hand-marked paper ballots to voters at the 16 various polling locations. 17 In the letter, the Clean Money coalition requests 18 that poll workers must be required to proactively offer the 19 option to use a hand-marked paper ballot to voters. Well, I 20 would submit that more than that, it should be widespread and 21 disseminated by the Secretary of State ahead of time that 22 hand-marked paper ballots will be offered to voters in L.A. 23 in November. 24 The disastrous example of what happened in March in 25 my mind is a form of voter suppression in that it is CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 84 1 established in many voters’ minds in L.A. that they will be 2 facing long lines and the possible breakdown of machines and 3 poll books. And one way to mitigate that is to make sure 4 that every voter is aware before the November election that 5 they will be offered to hand-mark paper ballot that can 6 bypass any breakdown in the machines and ensure that they 7 won’t be standing in line for hours. 8 So I hope that we can expand that request from the 9 Clean Money Coalition to make it an overall requirement not 10 just from the poll workers to offer the voters but that the 11 voters beforehand know that they will be offered a hand- 12 marked paper ballot. Thank you. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. Next 14 up we have Darlene Little. 15 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Darlene Little? 16 MS. LITTLE: Yes, this is Darlene. 17 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 18 MS. LITTLE: Hi. I’m with Protect California 19 Ballots. I’ve been doing this for a decade or so. And in 20 February, I sent comments about the VSAP system. A lot of 21 the comments that I sent were exactly the same comments that 22 we’re proposing now and it seems to me like nobody is 23 listening to the comments. 24 So just to reiterate, I’d like to see paper ballots 25 on demand at the polling sites. I’d like to see QR codes CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 85 1 declared illegal and not allowed to be used in the state of 2 California. I’d like to see that the ballot marking devices 3 not be used as a ballot box. I’d like to see poll books open 4 sourced and certified. Russian hackers can mess with the 5 poll books because they’re connected to the Internet and that 6 could disenfranchise other voters by just changing an address 7 of some sort. 8 I’d like to also make sure that both the VSAP 2.1 and 9 the polling book software all be open sourced and certified 10 after it’s fixed independently and not to certify the VSAP 11 system the way it is currently. And thank you for allowing 12 me to comment. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 14 Appreciate the public comment. 15 And I just want to reiterate to everyone that we do 16 take the public comments period and what’s provided and the 17 information that each of you -- the time that each of you 18 have taken very seriously and is all part of the 19 consideration. So whenever we do this, this is a very 20 important part of the certification and review and the entire 21 process. So thank you very much. 22 Next up we have Stephanie Dennis. 23 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Stephanie Dennis? 24 MS. DENNIS: Can you hear me? 25 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 86 1 morning. 2 MS. DENNIS: Good morning or good afternoon, now. 3 I live in Lancaster in Los Angeles County. And I’ve 4 been a voter of voting age since 1968. And I consider this 5 election so very critical to our nation that the results will 6 either promote the continued life or contribute to the death 7 of our democratic republic. 8 I’m very worried about the fact of the security 9 issues, all of them as listed by the Clean Money Coalition 10 letter. But I’m going to mention two of them in particular 11 for time. 12 And the first most urgent issue is that please, 13 Secretary Padilla will order and require a separate ordinary 14 ballot box from that which is internal to the VSAP machine 15 with the November election. And that he’ll delay 16 certification of the system until L.A. County has had a 17 chance to address all the remainder of the flawed security 18 issues. 19 And I’m also very concerned about the use of the QR 20 codes being used to count the votes because it’s crucial that 21 voters be able to verify even after they reviewed the ballot 22 that the ballot that is put in the box, which hopefully will 23 be outside an ordinary box and not the internal one, and that 24 what is actually printed and counted is what the voter 25 intended. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 87 1 So we need -- we need to be able to know that our 2 votes count and that our votes are what we voted. Thank you 3 so much for listening. 4 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you for 5 your public comments. 6 Next up we have David Newswanger. And before David 7 begins his public comment, again, just want to give the next 8 speakers a heads up so they can be ready. We have David 9 Newswanger, Ed Hieronymus, Caryl Schwartz, and then Debra 10 Cohn on deck. 11 NaKesha, are you able to unmute David Newswanger? 12 MR. NEWSWANGER: I’m here. 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 14 MR. NEWSWANGER: Good morning. My name is David 15 Newswanger, I’m from Sunnyvale, and I’m a member of the 16 California Clean Money Campaign. 17 It would be a shame to ruin this noble effort with a 18 bad start, therefore, I urge Secretary Padilla to resolve the 19 issues raised in the Clean Money and Expert Coalition letter 20 before a final certification. Thank you. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank you 22 very much. 23 Next up we have Caryl Schwartz. 24 MS. SCHWARTZ: My name is Caryl Schwartz and I’m 25 speaking as an individual although I was informed of this -- CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 88 1 of this issue by the California Clean Money Campaign and I 2 want to thank them for the work that they’ve done. I also 3 want to thank all of the other speakers who have made 4 comments prior to me who were so beautifully articulate with 5 the issues with this voting machine. 6 And I want to urge Secretary Padilla not to certify 7 this equipment at this point in time because I am deeply, 8 deeply concerned about election security. I am very, very 9 concerned. It makes absolutely no sense to me that once 10 you’ve printed out a ballot and approved it, that you would 11 send it back through the machine where it could potentially 12 be hacked. 13 So it is imperative that we have boxes that you can 14 in fact put your ballot in without it going through the heads 15 that read it a second time. It’s illogical to me. 16 You know, there’s so much and so many people do look 17 to California as a leader and we really cannot afford as a 18 state, as a nation to certify something that is not a 19 foolproof system. And when there are so many issues visible, 20 so many experts, the system should not be certified now. 21 Thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to speak. 22 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 23 Ms. Schwartz. 24 And I apologize Ed Hieronymus, I skipped over you. 25 My apologies. So we’ll go back one to Ed Hieronymus. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 89 1 NaKesha, are you able to unmute? 2 MS. ROBINSON: Sorry, what’s the name again? 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: It’s spelled, 4 H-I-E-R-O-N-Y-M-U-S. 5 MR. HIERONYMUS: This is Ed Hieronymus. I’m from Los 6 Angeles, I’m a retired lawyer. And over several decades, I 7 served as a poll worker in various precincts in L.A. County 8 under the prior punch card and bubble marking systems. I 9 voted in the March election using the new voting machine 10 that’s the subject of today’s hearing. 11 And I join with others in the California Clean Money 12 letter and the comments in that. I did want to point a 13 couple of things. It has been my experience as an inspector 14 that voters do want to know that their ballot accurately 15 reflects the choices that they have made. And under the 16 prior systems, that was quite possible. Introduction of a 17 barcode or QR code prevents that from virtually all voters. 18 Most people do not have smart phones or barcode readers or 19 whatever on their phones or wouldn’t know how to use them if 20 they did, although some might. 21 The other thing I would suggest strongly is that 22 there be a separate ballot box. That will quickly speed up 23 the election line. My own experience and that of others I 24 was observing is that when the ballot -- when the machine 25 hands the ballot out to you to look at before you put it back CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 90 1 into the machine, it takes time to do that. Under the old 2 systems, one could take their ballot from the voting booth 3 and on the way to the ballot box, you could check it. And 4 that frees up the machine for someone else to use. 5 So if you do that for this next election like every 6 other county in California does, the lines will go much 7 faster and people can be sure that what they checked is what 8 they actually put in the machine. And then it’s up to the 9 local counter to assure that it’s correctly counted. Thank 10 you. 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 12 Next up we have Debra Cohn. And before Debra speaks 13 just to give everyone heads up for the next speakers. Debra 14 Cohn, then Rob Lanphier, Katherine Carpio, and then Larry 15 Bathgate on deck. 16 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Debra Cohn? 17 Ms. Cohn, did you want to speak? 18 MS. COHN: Am I unmuted? 19 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: You are, yes. 20 MS. COHN: Okay. I just want to reiterate everything 21 that everyone before me has said. 22 I am with the Los Angeles Voter Action Coalition and 23 with Scrutineers. I’m not speaking on their behalf but just 24 you should know that I’m very active in election protection 25 groups. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 91 1 And I don’t want this system certified at all. I 2 think we need to go to an opensource code system like the one 3 that trustthevote.com is developing and I think California 4 needs to be a model in this area. And I vehemently oppose 5 using this system beyond this county and even in this county. 6 And I’m counting on Secretary Padilla to do the right thing. 7 Thank you. 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 9 Next up Rob Lanphier. It’s L-A-N-P-H-I-E-R. 10 NaKesha, make sure you unmute. 11 MR. LANPHIER: I believe -- this here. Can you hear 12 me? 13 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Yes, thank you. 14 MR. LANPHIER: I’m Rob Lanphier, living in San 15 Francisco, speaking as an individual who learned about this 16 hearing from the California Clean Money Campaign. 17 Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. I 18 would like to urge Secretary Padilla to heed the security 19 issues identified by the earlier speakers and by the 20 California Clean Money Coalition letter. 21 In particular, the hand-marked paper ballots are 22 critical for voter confidence. I would urge Secretary 23 Padilla to insist on using secure voter audited paper ballots 24 for the November 2020 election. 25 A printed QR code is highly impractical for voters to CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 92 1 verify their vote. Colorado Secretary of State has banned 2 this, banned the use of unreadable barcodes for counting the 3 ballots and California should also ban barcodes for 4 expressing voter intent. And also per SB360, the source code 5 must be available for auditing by parties other than the VSAP 6 vendor allowing and also for development by others via open 7 source license. Please do not certify the VSAP system prior 8 to addressing any concerns of the California Clean Money 9 Coalition letter. Thank you. 10 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 11 Next up we Katherine Carpio. 12 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Katherine Carpio, 13 C-A-R-P-I-O? 14 MS. ROBINSON: Is she a call-in user? 15 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Um -- 16 MS. ROBINSON: Oh, I see her, I see her. 17 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Okay. Great. 18 Thank you. 19 MS. ROBINSON: Okay. 20 MS. CARPIO: Hello? 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Hi, good 22 morning -- good afternoon. Sorry. Good afternoon. 23 MS. CARPIO: Good afternoon. My name is Katherine 24 Carpio. I am an organizer for the Los Angeles branch of 25 California Clean Money Campaign. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 93 1 I’m very concerned about the security issues 2 identified in the Clean Money and Election Expert Coalition 3 letter. I have been a resident of the downtown Los Angeles 4 area for the last 26 years and have been repeatedly told from 5 neighbors that they don’t trust their vote to be counted. 6 And if voters are already afraid of our voting systems, we 7 should not be giving them any more reasons to be afraid to 8 cast a vote. 9 In 2020, more Americans are increasingly advocating 10 for accountability -- accountability and transparency. 11 During my research of eight different polling locations in 12 L.A., I found multiple issues that shouldn’t be there because 13 it does add to this issue of being afraid of casting your 14 votes. Some of those issues were the jams when inserting 15 your ballot back into the machine, there was lags in 16 registration, long lines, there were also a lot of polling 17 locations that did not have the handwritten paper -- paper 18 ballots which is to me just shows that the entire March 19 primaries’ system was ill prepared and that is not okay for a 20 voter. It just -- it just completely devalues the 21 experience. 22 And so I really hope that Secretary Padilla will 23 require, you know, to use a separate ordinary ballot boxes 24 for November election as well and not get final certification 25 to the system until the L.A. County addresses the rest of the CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 94 1 security issues that I mentioned earlier. This is very 2 important for voter confidence. Again, this is for 3 accountability and transparency for the American voter. 4 Thank you. 5 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 6 So next up we have Larry Bathgate. And just give a 7 heads up to those on deck, we have Larry Bathgate and then 8 Karen Beck, and then Michelle Gabriel. Again, my apologies, 9 I can’t read my own handwriting. Gabriel. 10 And then I think we’ll try to go back to Mr. David 11 Schmidt and Gary Bailey after those two. Make sure that 12 they’re -- see if they’re able and available to give their 13 public comment as well. 14 So next up is Larry Bathgate. 15 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Larry? 16 MR. BATHGATE: I’m unmuted. Good afternoon. My name 17 is Larry Bathgate, and I vote in Marin County where we have 18 what I consider a wonderful voting system. 19 We are given a paper ballot to fill out in the voting 20 booth and after we finish, we take this ballot to a 21 standalone voting machine which tabulates our ballot. If 22 there are any problems with the voting -- with the election, 23 the paper ballots are always available for further 24 verification. 25 I can’t understand why such a complicated and CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 95 1 hackable system is being implemented in the largest county in 2 California when a system as simple and transparent as the one 3 here in Marin County is being used. I just want to say that 4 the flaws in this new voting system will make election 5 results less transparent, less voter friendly, and subject to 6 hacking which can change and invalidate a voter’s ballot. 7 I’m also concerned that this voting system may act as 8 a template for new voting systems that will be adopted by 9 other counties in California. 10 Secretary Padilla, I respectfully implore you not to 11 certify this system until the system is made voter friendly 12 and transparent and the most serious security flaws are 13 fixed, especially the one that combines the ballot printout 14 with the ballot box tabulation. 15 Thank you for this opportunity to give my opinion. 16 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you for 17 your public comment. 18 Next up is Karen Beck. 19 MS. BECK: This is Karen Beck from Danville. Can you 20 hear me? 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Thank 22 you. 23 MS. BECK: Okay. Thanks for this hearing today. I 24 just want to say while I’m with the San Ramon Valley Dem 25 Club, I’m with Clean Money Campaign, Indivisible. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 96 1 And basically, this is a disaster that doesn’t have 2 to happen. I don’t see what the rush is to put this out. 3 I’ve been listening to what everyone has to say and I’m even 4 more upset and terrified than I was when I started today. 5 So I just hope that Secretary Padilla will do what he 6 needs to do to put the brakes on this thing until we have the 7 protections that the Clean Money Campaign and Expert 8 Coalition letter states. 9 I also want to know, who’s going to see these 10 comments? You know, I heard you say they’re important but, 11 you know, people are spending a lot of time here today. And 12 I guess I’m just wondering, is Padilla going to see these 13 comments, question mark? Hello? 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Is that the end 15 of your public comment? 16 MS. BECK: The comments that people have been making 17 today, is he going to see this transcript? 18 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: This hearing is 19 to take public comments. So if you’re finished with your 20 public comments, we’ll move on to the next speaker. 21 MS. BECK: Okay. Yes, go ahead. 22 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Thank 23 you. And to answer your question, yes. As -- when we 24 started off with this hearing, I let everyone know that it is 25 being recorded by a court reporter, a stenographer who’s CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 97 1 taking the transcripts of this hearing just like we do with 2 every other public hearing for voting system review and 3 certification. And that is made part of the public record 4 and will be posted on our website. So I’ll address that at 5 the end as well as where you can get a copy of the transcript 6 when it is ready. And, yes, it is part of our review 7 including review by the Secretary. 8 So thank you so much for your input. 9 Next up we have Michelle Gabriel. 10 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Michelle? 11 MS. GABRIEL: Yes, hi -- 12 MS. ROBINSON: Yes, she’s unmuted. 13 MS. GABRIEL: -- can you hear me? 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Great. Yes, we 15 can. Good morning -- or good afternoon. 16 MS. GABRIEL: Great. I’m Michelle Gabriel, I’m from 17 Oakland and really concerned about election integrity. So I 18 urge Secretary of State Padilla to address the issues that 19 were brought up by all the experts and the California Clean 20 Money Campaign. 21 One of my concerns is about the country in general. 22 Seems to be it’s unfortunate (indiscernible) that there are 23 laws but they don’t need to (indiscernible) course. So I 24 request Secretary Padilla to enforce the -- to request that 25 SB360 actually be used to get the open source software CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 98 1 (indiscernible). 2 And I have another issue that concerns me is this -- 3 that L.A. doesn’t provide regular hand-marked ballots for 4 people to use if they want and they don’t have their 5 (indiscernible) map out with them when they come to the 6 polling place. So this means that there is another 7 mitigation where it’s gone, or a denial of service staff or 8 it may be a significant portion of the population. There are 9 people who are risking getting COVID by going out to vote. 10 They should be given every possible path to actually vote. 11 So this appears to be just one where voter’s 12 suppression technique. So I hope you’ll keep these in mind. 13 And thank you for giving me this time. 14 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 15 So we’ll go back and Mr. David Schmidt had requested 16 to speak and when we got to his turn, I think he was 17 otherwise occupied. 18 David Schmidt, are you available? 19 MS. ROBINSON: He is no longer listed as a 20 participant. 21 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Okay. Thank you. 22 And then I think also Gary Bailey, we had some technical 23 difficulties there. Were we able to resolve those? 24 NaKesha, were you able to find Gary Bailey? 25 MS. ROBINSON: Gary Bailey is also not listed unless CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 99 1 he is a call-in user so he would have to identify himself as 2 such. 3 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: (Indiscernible). 4 Thank you. Thanks for checking on that, NaKesha. 5 I think that we have one more that just requested to 6 speak. And that’s Marcy Winograd. 7 MS. WINOGRAD: Hello, can you hear me? 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Good 9 morning. 10 MS. WINOGRAD: Good morning. Yes, I’m Marcy 11 Winograd. I am -- I was an elected DNC delegate for Bernie 12 Sanders. I’m a registered voter in Santa Barbara County and 13 active in Democratic Socialists of America in Santa Barbara. 14 Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I urge 15 Secretary of State Padilla not to certify the VSAP voting 16 system at this time because of a myriad of challenges ahead 17 of a monumental election that will closely watched throughout 18 the country and the world. While I appreciate the efforts of 19 the L.A. County Registrar’s Office to bring ballot boxes and 20 voting to virtually every college campus in L.A. County to 21 promote youth voting and lifelong voting habits. 22 I also share concerns over what happened on election 23 day and the day before in L.A. County. When I was poll 24 watching at UCLA, lines of students waiting for hours to vote 25 snaked around the student union. Students, the ones who CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 100 1 didn’t have to leave to go to class, complained to me that 2 they had already registered to vote in L.A. County but were 3 not listed in the poll books. Student after student was 4 handed a pink slip and told to vote traditionally. The room 5 was a sea of pink slips. One student even showed me proof of 6 his county voter registration but was still told to vote 7 provisionally. Clearly the poll book is a problem. We need 8 paper, voter rolls, something. 9 Another concern is software that leads voters to 10 believe they’ve already cast their ballots when indeed they 11 have not and walk off with their paper ballot. Please ensure 12 that voters who show up at the polls can vote on ballots that 13 are printed on demand and not blank sheets of paper on which 14 they would have to scribble names and others would have to 15 decipher what the scribble is. 16 I also ask that all college campuses have large 17 secure ballot boxes like the one that was installed upon 18 request at UCLA so that students can drop off their mail-in 19 ballots in secure locations and know that their ballots are 20 secure. 21 Thank you so much, appreciate the opportunity to 22 testify. 23 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. I 24 have one more. Pamela Fuller who would like to speak. 25 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Pamela Fuller? CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 101 1 MS. FULLER: Hello? 2 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Good morning. 3 MS. FULLER: Good morning. I’m an individual citizen 4 and I am extremely upset about this system that is 5 potentially in place. I haven’t heard one person on this 6 phone call in support of this. That’s pretty interesting. I 7 think that I just would strongly suggest -- strongly 8 encourage Mr. Padilla to please not -- not install this 9 system, that our votes are very important to us. And I’m 10 just an individual citizen. So please do not do this. Thank 11 you. 12 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 13 I think that Ms. Fuller, you were our last public 14 speaker. I don’t see any others. Just double checking here. 15 I think we covered everyone. So again, thank you 16 everyone for your public comments. 17 And next we will -- the County of L.A. is welcome to 18 make a statement or response as you would like. 19 NaKesha, I’m looking at this. Is Dean going to be 20 making statements? 21 MS. ROBINSON: I have unmuted Dean and Edwin Smith. 22 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Okay. Great. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. LOGAN: Hi, this is Dean. If Ed is available and 25 wants to go first, I’m happy to make the final remarks. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 102 1 MR. SMITH: That’s fine. Thank you, Ms. Lapsley, 2 I’ll go ahead. 3 This is Ed Smith, I lead Smartmatic’s global services 4 and certification teams in North America. And I’m grateful 5 for today’s opportunity to make this public comment. 6 Can you guys hear me? 7 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: We can. Thank 8 you. Please -- please continue. 9 MR. SMITH: Will do. Thank you. 10 The Los Angeles County Registrar Recorder and County 11 Clerk is the designer, owner, and operator of the VSAP Voting 12 System. Smartmatic has provided software development, voting 13 equipment manufacture, system integration, and some 14 deployment services under the supervision of the Registrar’s 15 Office. Smartmatic also provides certification management 16 services under our contract with the Registrar’s Office, 17 hence my presence at today’s public hearing. 18 I have personally or through staff executed over 80 19 state certifications and 10 federal certifications. Five of 20 those 80 have been in California. I know from that extensive 21 experience that California citizens can be proud that their 22 state operates the most stringent state testing program in 23 the United States. 24 Contrary to implications made by other folks who have 25 commented on today’s public hearing, Ms. Lapsley, Ms. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 103 1 Robinson, her staff, and other state employees involved in 2 the certification process take a stern approach to the 3 testing process in compliance with California Voting System 4 Standards. And to address commenters, the Secretary did 5 require security updates which are present in this newer 6 system version. 7 The state carries out many, many hours of preparation 8 and tests on all aspects of the voting system and we thank 9 them for that deep level of preparation and professionalism 10 they consistently display. We are pleased the resulting test 11 reports for the VSAP 2.1 system we are discussing today show 12 a very clearly the positive evolution of the system from last 13 year’s VSAP 2.0 certification effort. 14 For example, the consultant’s functional test report 15 for this system version includes on page 22 of 28 that no 16 functional issues were encountered during test. Similar 17 positive conclusions are found in the accessible -- I’m 18 sorry, the accessibility and usability report. 19 We’re also pleased that the state was able to 20 determine that we updated the system to clear all findings 21 from the last certification that we required to be done by 22 the state in the use conditions for that certificate 23 alongside clearing findings from the last certification that 24 were captured in the various test reports including changes 25 to the more button. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 104 1 Lastly, we are delighted to offer this candidate 2 system for certification. Once again, we appreciate the 3 always cordial and professional interactions with members of 4 the Secretary’s staff and the state’s testing consultant SLI 5 Compliance. 6 Thank you for the opportunity to make this public 7 comment and for your consideration of the VSAP 2.1 system. 8 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you. 9 Mr. Logan. 10 MR. LOGAN: Hi, good afternoon, everybody. This is 11 Dean Logan, the registrar recorder county clerk for Los 12 Angeles County. I want to thank you, Susan, and your team 13 for the -- convening the hearing this morning and for the 14 opportunity to make comments. 15 Let me begin by first thanking all of the people who 16 took time to review material or to log on and listen and to 17 share their comments today. That is -- that is an important 18 part of our democratic process and essential to a successful 19 and transparent elections process in California. So that’s 20 meaningful to me and I appreciate it very much. 21 That said, I think it’s important to set some context 22 about today’s hearing and about how we’re moving forward in 23 Los Angeles County. And I think to start with that, I think 24 it’s to recognize that this is a hearing on the certification 25 of the components of the VSAP system as designed and as CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 105 1 presented under the requirements of the California Voting 2 System Standards. It is also important to recognize that for 3 Los Angeles County, the challenges in preparing for a new 4 voting system have been significant. I think everybody here 5 either knows or should know that the Secretary of State 6 withdrew certification of the Legacy voting systems in 7 California effective August 27th, 2019. So it’s important for 8 voters in L.A. County and then for those who are outside of 9 L.A. County watching to recognize that Los Angeles County was 10 mandated to move to a new voting system and one that complied 11 with the California Voting System Standards. 12 We knew that, we knew the importance of that. We 13 knew that the Legacy system in L.A. County did not have the 14 agility to meet the needs and the accessibility expectations 15 of an electoral jurisdiction that serves 5.4-plus million 16 registered voters, 88 cities, over 300 municipal 17 organizations, and voters that are provided services in 18 18 languages. 19 A lot has been said about security today. And I 20 think it’s important to note that that was the impetus for 21 the Secretary of State’s adoption and adherence to the 22 California Voting System Standards which we participated in 23 and supported the enhanced security provisions of those 24 standards. 25 All of that said, just a little bit of additional CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 106 1 context here is that today’s hearing is about the 2 certification of the system and the components of the system 3 that were submitted in this application. It’s not, at least 4 from our thinking, this is not a campaign, it’s not a 5 legislative hearing where we’re readjudicating the laws of 6 California as they pertain to certification standards and the 7 availability of voting systems. It’s also not a hearing on 8 the e-poll books system. E-poll books are certified 9 separately by the Secretary of State’s office and counties 10 are bound by using the systems that are tested and certified 11 by the Secretary of State. And so issues with the e-poll 12 book are separate and apart from this particular hearing. 13 There also have been many references to a distinction 14 which I believe does not really exist between final 15 certification and conditional certification. In California, 16 all of the voting system certifications are conditional. 17 That’s appropriate. It actually speaks to the integrity and 18 the vitality of the California process that we know that when 19 it comes to voting systems and processes, that ongoing 20 scrutiny testing and refinement and changes to those 21 standards are critically important. And any system that’s 22 approved for use in California ought to have conditions and 23 ought to be subject to recertification based on changes in 24 technology, voter behavior, legislation, and the like. 25 So with that said, I think it’s also important to CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 107 1 point out that the Voting Solutions for All People initiative 2 in Los Angeles County has been one of the most open and 3 inclusive voting system development and engage -- voting 4 system development engagements in the nation and it has -- 5 has included the oversight and the input of a number of 6 experts and experts who had complete access and visibility 7 into those design elements. 8 And just to make note for the record that our 9 technical advisory committee included representatives from 10 MIT, from Rice University, from California State University 11 of Berkeley, Verified Voting, the Center for Democracy and 12 Technology, and the Center for Civic Design, just to name a 13 few of those folks. So there was a lot of -- this is not 14 done internally, it was not done in a vacuum, it was done 15 with a lot of input and a lot of technical expertise. And, 16 again, aligned to meeting the standards of the California 17 Voting System Standards which are the baseline for any system 18 that’s used in California. 19 It’s also I think fair to say that this system has 20 been through more security reviews than any system that has 21 been approved or subjected to approval in California. And I 22 would just note that in addition to SLI Compliance, the 23 independent testing authority used by the Secretary of State 24 for this engagement, in addition to that, the County as 25 independent of Smartmatic who’s the manufacturer -- CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 108 1 manufacturing partner, that the County submitted this system 2 for independent third-party review by FireEye, a reputable 3 and notable cybersecurity company to the cybersecurity and 4 infrastructure security agent for the Department of Homeland 5 Security. And that Smartmatic on their own volition 6 independently sought a security review by Silence, another 7 independent third-party review company that is reputable in 8 the field. 9 So I think it would be hard-pressed to find any other 10 system where that has been publicly recognized and where the 11 manufacturer and the owner of the system, and in this case 12 the owner being the County of Los Angeles, submitted that for 13 third-party review over and above the testing and 14 certification process that we’re talking about today. 15 So I’ll just conclude by summarizing what I think 16 shows a very positive evolution of the system from the past 17 conditional certification and this particular current 18 certification. And this comes directly from the reports that 19 are available and presented to the Secretary through this 20 independent review. 21 With regard to hardware, it was found that all 22 devices were deemed to have successfully passed both the 23 bench handling and vibration tests. So the robust nature of 24 the hardware has been demonstrated. 25 From accessibility standpoint, the general consensus CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 109 1 of the volunteers who we recruited and deployed to 2 participate in the testing process felt that the technologies 3 implemented for accessibility and usability improve the 4 experience for voters that are most in need of those 5 services. And there were no concerns voiced over privacy 6 issues. 7 Functional testing, there were no functional issues 8 encountered during testing. Volume testing shows significant 9 improvement in the paper handling. The reduction and 10 addressing of the printer jams -- or the paper jams, I’m 11 sorry, that were raised in the prior certification and in the 12 March election. 13 And the staff -- the staff report, which is a summary 14 of all of these reports states very clearly that the VSAP 2.1 15 voting system passed the functional and accessible phases of 16 testing. The volume test phase verified the fixes applied to 17 the BMD have brought the devices well within an acceptable 18 rate of paper handling as dictated by the CVSS. 19 Finally, the County has addressed the findings 20 required as a condition of certification for the VSAP 2.0 21 voting system and specifically those tied to the source code 22 and security and telecommunications review. That’s a very 23 strong support, it’s independent of the manufacturer, it’s 24 independent of the county as an owner, and it speaks to the 25 compliance with the California Voting System Standards. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 110 1 I want to thank in particular NaKesha Robinson for 2 her leadership, resolve, and assistance through this 3 certification process. It has been noted. It was noted in 4 the VSAP 2.0 certification and it’s worth noting here again. 5 This is the first time a publicly owned system has gone 6 through the certification process. I’m proud of that and I’m 7 proud that it has been subjected to a higher level of 8 scrutiny and intensity than any other voting system in 9 California and I would argue in the country. 10 I think that’s appropriate. I think that this dialog 11 and the work going forward will continue to make this a 12 better system, a more secure system to serve a very complex 13 and diverse electoral jurisdiction. 14 And finally, I will just say there’s been a lot of 15 reference here to SB three -- Senate Bill 360 and to open 16 source technology. Los Angeles County was at the forefront 17 of the drafting of Senate Bill 360. We believe strongly in 18 the potential and the opportunity for open source voting 19 systems. Our system comes closer to that than any other 20 system in the state and in the country. There is another one 21 under develop here in the state of California very similar in 22 nature to our initiative and one that we’re excited to see 23 move forth as well. 24 The reality is that in the time frame under which 25 voting systems were decertified and the conduct of the 2020 CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 111 1 election had to take place, there has been insufficient time 2 and insufficient effort on the part of the state, the 3 legislature, and the Secretary of State’s office to set a 4 governance process for the disclosure and the publication of 5 open source code with regard to voting systems. We have said 6 and I will say again that we feel strongly that that can be 7 and will be beneficial moving forward. At one time we were 8 working in cooperation with the Clean Money Campaign on 9 legislation to this effect. It’s unfortunate that that broke 10 down and deteriorated into the dialog that you’re hearing 11 today. 12 But the reality is that we need in this time and 13 everybody talked today about a security and about the threats 14 and the narrative that’s coming even from the national -- the 15 President of the United States with regard to vulnerability 16 of voting systems and the like. We cannot in good faith open 17 that for disclosure without the assurance that the 18 certification process and the testing process in the state of 19 California remains intact and it doesn’t put our system at 20 risk. That doesn’t mean that the system hasn’t been 21 scrutinized, it doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been built for 22 the ability to be a fully open source system and we’re 23 hopeful that that day will come. 24 In fact, we have initiated, this office has initiated 25 an open technology working group and invited experts from the CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 112 1 open source field as well as the Secretary of State’s office 2 and people who have been represented in this dialog today to 3 move that dialog forward so that we can have some standards 4 and some governance for open source in voting technology in 5 the state of California. And we’re hopeful that that can -- 6 that can happen. But that’s not something that can happen 7 today. 8 So, again, appreciate all of the input, appreciate 9 the effort, the partnership with Smartmatic as our 10 manufacturing company. Emphasizing again this is a publicly 11 owned system for Los Angeles County serving a jurisdiction of 12 5.4-plus million registered voters, 18 different languages, 13 and doing this at a time as we move forward with conducting 14 elections that have also been modified by legislation within 15 the last month, executive orders by the governor in response 16 to the public health challenge, and localized changes to the 17 processes here. 18 So we are committed to working together to address 19 these issues. We think that this certification initiative 20 and campaign have gone a long way to do that. I think the 21 reports are reflective of that. Your staff report is 22 reflective of that. And I appreciate the opportunity to 23 present this information to you today. 24 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Thank you, 25 Mr. Logan. CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 113 1 That’s -- if there’s no one else from your side, we 2 do have -- a couple of people (indiscernible) on this in the 3 public comment, I’d like to go back to them. And then if 4 you, Mr. Logan, would like to follow up after their comments, 5 I’ll offer for you to do that. 6 But Ann Winters, my apologies, I did not see you on 7 the list. So if we can go back to Ann Winters. 8 NaKesha, are you able to unmute Ann Winters? 9 MS. ROBINSON: She is no longer listed as a 10 participant. 11 DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE LAPSLEY: Okay. Thank you. 12 And then Stephanie Brown, you had said that -- again, 13 my apologies, you had indicated that you had wanted to speak 14 but I’m now seeing that you’re saying you’ll pass and then 15 write in. 16 Going once, going twice. 17 Okay. Great. I’ll take your silence as you’ll write 18 in. Again, my apologies on that, I didn’t see it in the list 19 of names. 20 So that -- this concludes our public hearing. We 21 want to say thank you to everyone who was able to join us 22 virtually today and for your patience in this process from 23 the hearing for the Los Angeles County Solution for All 24 People VSAP 2.1 Voting System. 25 As NaKesha indicated, all of the reports can be found CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 114 1 on our website at www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ovsta/voting- 2 technology-vendors/losangelescountyvsap. So if you have 3 problems finding that link, please let us know. It is 4 available on the main voting technology website. But OVSTA 5 and NaKesha are very happy to point you in the right 6 direction to make sure you get the information that you need. 7 As I had indicated at the beginning of the hearing, 8 the written comments on this can be submitted via email or 9 via post to our office through the close of business on 10 September 15. If you are going to submit it via email, 11 please submit it to votingsystems@sos.ca.gov. And if you’re 12 going to submit it via U.S. post, please mail it to the 13 attention of Voting Systems Comment, 1500 11th Street, 6th 14 Floor, Sacramento, California, 95814. 15 Again, any written public comments will be made part 16 of the public record as well as the comments that were taken 17 today. As I indicated earlier, a court stenographer has 18 taken the transcript of this public hearing and so everyone’s 19 names and their comments are part of the public record and 20 will eventually be posted on Secretary of State’s website. 21 Dr. Gill actually had a fantastic idea and I thank you 22 Dr. Gill. That once the transcript is available, we will 23 email those who have provided their email address from this 24 hearing to let you know it’s up and posted for your review. 25 And, again, with all things COVID, this is all new CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 115 1 for us so again, appreciate you coming and spending these 2 couple of hours with us on this important topic. And thank 3 you for coming, appreciate it. 4 This concludes the public hearing for the VSAP 2.1 5 Voting System. 6 Thank you. 7 (Thereupon, the Hearing was adjourned at 8 12:54 p.m.) 9 --oOo-- 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 116 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE I do hereby certify that the testimony in the foregoing hearing was taken at the time and place therein stated; that the testimony of said witnesses were reported by me, a certified electronic court reporter and a disinterested person, and was under my supervision thereafter transcribed into typewriting. And I further certify that I am not of counsel or attorney for either or any of the parties to said hearing nor in any way interested in the outcome of the cause named in said caption. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 5th day of October, 2020. PETER PETTY CER**D-493 Notary Public CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476 117 TRANSCRIBER'S CERTIFICATE I do hereby certify that the testimony in the foregoing hearing was taken at the time and place therein stated; that the testimony of said witnesses were transcribed by me, a certified transcriber. And I further certify that I am not of counsel or attorney for either or any of the parties to said hearing nor in any way interested in the outcome of the cause named in said caption. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 5th day of October, 2020. Jill Jacoby Certified Transcriber AAERT No. CERT**D-633 CALIFORNIA REPORTING, LLC 229 Napa Street, Rodeo, California 94572 (510) 224-4476